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Hello.
There seem to be some people that are sticking with R1 instead of 7.
Why are you doing this? R1 is slightly newer and ahead of Vista, but not by much, and no where near 7.
If you stick with R1 because of SuperFetch and other accessories, then why not just move to 7?
7 is really quite configurable and stable, and is a much better choice than R1.
R1 over Vista, sure. Over 7? Why in the hell?
I have to wonder why these people run a server os at all, unless it is due to not actually understanding the differences and perceiving differences that have no technical basis.
I’m genuinely curios, and don’t understand the though process here.
Well, for starters windows 7 was babied down for the consumer masses.
They even removed the amount of windows explorer windows that are open in the taskbar (you know the little yellow number that told you).
They got rid of the folder sharing overlay icon.
They also got rid of a TON of windows media player features in version 12-tag editor,miniplayer,tight but bad codecs,UI inconstancies and bad design.
They got rid of some network drive features.
Superfetch is missing from R2 (using the program featured on this site as a replacement decreases my gaming performance and does not load PSCS4 quicker)
Rich tooltips for the notification area system icons such as Volume, Network, Power and the taskbar date and time have been removed
When no items are selected in a folder, neither the details pane nor the status bar show the total size of files in the folder
Network activity animation on Network Connections icon in the notification area
The choose/change font common dialog does not show the type of font (OpenType, TrueType, Symbol font etc.)
Windows Registry Reflection for x64 editions replaced with merged 32/64-bit keys
There are so many things missing from windows 7 that irk me.
Well, for starters windows 7 was babied down for the consumer masses.
They even removed the amount of windows explorer windows that are open in the taskbar (you know the little yellow number that told you).
They got rid of the folder sharing overlay icon.
They also got rid of a TON of windows media player features in version 12-tag editor,miniplayer,tight but bad codecs,UI inconstancies and bad design.
They got rid of some network drive features.
Superfetch is missing from R2 (using the program featured on this site as a replacement decreases my gaming performance and does not load PSCS4 quicker)
Rich tooltips for the notification area system icons such as Volume, Network, Power and the taskbar date and time have been removed
When no items are selected in a folder, neither the details pane nor the status bar show the total size of files in the folder
Network activity animation on Network Connections icon in the notification area
The choose/change font common dialog does not show the type of font (OpenType, TrueType, Symbol font etc.)
Windows Registry Reflection for x64 editions replaced with merged 32/64-bit keys
There are so many things missing from windows 7 that irk me.
This kinda thing like I mentioned above (gotta type this in a second post cause the text field jumps around like mad) is also keeping me away from R2 as well. since the two OSes share the code.
This is a thing that is irking me about the software industry. They keep babying down software so more and more n00bs can use it. However, those n00bs can become better people by learning to use computers the way they are and becoming smarter. Now more then ever we need more smart people and not more dumb people who want everyone to baby everything down becuase they are too lazy to learn.
are these n00bs that intimidated knowing the free space of their drives in the status bar?
are they intimidated by having more detailed information?
if they are they should not be using computers.
This kinda thing like I mentioned above (gotta type this in a second post cause the text field jumps around like mad) is also keeping me away from R2 as well. since the two OSes share the code.
This is a thing that is irking me about the software industry. They keep babying down software so more and more n00bs can use it. However, those n00bs can become better people by learning to use computers the way they are and becoming smarter. Now more then ever we need more smart people and not more dumb people who want everyone to baby everything down becuase they are too lazy to learn.
are these n00bs that intimidated knowing the free space of their drives in the status bar?
are they intimidated by having more detailed information?
if they are they should not be using computers.
disclaimer: I’m slightly hungover.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Well, for starters windows 7 was babied down for the consumer masses.
That seems awfully subjective. Can you back it up?
Having used both 7 and R2, there really is not that much difference for using it for a desktop system, as far as actually using it..ie prompts and such.
They even removed the amount of windows explorer windows that are open in the taskbar (you know the little yellow number that told you).
Err…, that is nothing specific to 7, and you can configure options like this.
They got rid of the folder sharing overlay icon.
Yes…change is not always bad though. Things like that you can add back….is that enough to justify running essentially Vista?
They also got rid of a TON of windows media player features in version 12-tag editor,miniplayer,tight but bad codecs,UI inconstancies and bad design.
Windows media player is separate from the OS. If you like, you can uninstall it and install your preffered version. Or use a better media player to begin with.
They got rid of some network drive features.
Like what? Enough to justify running Vista?
Superfetch is missing from R2 (using the program featured on this site as a replacement decreases my gaming performance and does not load PSCS4 quicker)
Well, it’s in 7.
I asked why run R1 instead of 7, not instead of R2.
Rich tooltips for the notification area system icons such as Volume, Network, Power and the taskbar date and time have been removed
Can you clarify this?
When no items are selected in a folder, neither the details pane nor the status bar show the total size of files in the folder
They surely do.
Network activity animation on Network Connections icon in the notification area
There was never an animation which represented activity, only that you were connected.
The choose/change font common dialog does not show the type of font (OpenType, TrueType, Symbol font etc.)
Can you clarify this?
Windows Registry Reflection for x64 editions replaced with merged 32/64-bit keys
And this?
There are so many things missing from windows 7 that irk me.
It’s a bit different, but you get used to it, and it is so very muc better than Vista(which is what R1 essentially is).
Would you stick with Server 2003 over R1 because Aero irked you?
@RemixedCat wrote:
This is a thing that is irking me about the software industry. They keep babying down software so more and more n00bs can use it. However, those n00bs can become better people by learning to use computers the way they are and becoming smarter. Now more then ever we need more smart people and not more dumb people who want everyone to baby everything down becuase they are too lazy to learn.
are these n00bs that intimidated knowing the free space of their drives in the status bar?
are they intimidated by having more detailed information?
if they are they should not be using computers.
You talk a lot about n00bs…yet you are sticking by outdated software because you dont like what amounts to UI changes? Usin a server OS is not an indication of increased skill of knowledge….
disclaimer: I’m slightly hungover.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Well, for starters windows 7 was babied down for the consumer masses.
That seems awfully subjective. Can you back it up?
Having used both 7 and R2, there really is not that much difference for using it for a desktop system, as far as actually using it..ie prompts and such.
They even removed the amount of windows explorer windows that are open in the taskbar (you know the little yellow number that told you).
Err…, that is nothing specific to 7, and you can configure options like this.
They got rid of the folder sharing overlay icon.
Yes…change is not always bad though. Things like that you can add back….is that enough to justify running essentially Vista?
They also got rid of a TON of windows media player features in version 12-tag editor,miniplayer,tight but bad codecs,UI inconstancies and bad design.
Windows media player is separate from the OS. If you like, you can uninstall it and install your preffered version. Or use a better media player to begin with.
They got rid of some network drive features.
Like what? Enough to justify running Vista?
Superfetch is missing from R2 (using the program featured on this site as a replacement decreases my gaming performance and does not load PSCS4 quicker)
Well, it’s in 7.
I asked why run R1 instead of 7, not instead of R2.
Rich tooltips for the notification area system icons such as Volume, Network, Power and the taskbar date and time have been removed
Can you clarify this?
When no items are selected in a folder, neither the details pane nor the status bar show the total size of files in the folder
They surely do.
Network activity animation on Network Connections icon in the notification area
There was never an animation which represented activity, only that you were connected.
The choose/change font common dialog does not show the type of font (OpenType, TrueType, Symbol font etc.)
Can you clarify this?
Windows Registry Reflection for x64 editions replaced with merged 32/64-bit keys
And this?
There are so many things missing from windows 7 that irk me.
It’s a bit different, but you get used to it, and it is so very muc better than Vista(which is what R1 essentially is).
Would you stick with Server 2003 over R1 because Aero irked you?
@RemixedCat wrote:
This is a thing that is irking me about the software industry. They keep babying down software so more and more n00bs can use it. However, those n00bs can become better people by learning to use computers the way they are and becoming smarter. Now more then ever we need more smart people and not more dumb people who want everyone to baby everything down becuase they are too lazy to learn.
are these n00bs that intimidated knowing the free space of their drives in the status bar?
are they intimidated by having more detailed information?
if they are they should not be using computers.
You talk a lot about n00bs…yet you are sticking by outdated software because you dont like what amounts to UI changes? Usin a server OS is not an indication of increased skill of knowledge….
Although I am a fan of Windows 7 over Vista, I do agree with RemixedCat in many aspects. Vista has an absolute truck-load of new features, most complain about how slow and bloaty it is (out of the box at least) but there are so many little things in Vista/R1 that were removed from 7/R2 to please the casual computer user and “streamline” the OS.
I think Vista is amazing compared to XP, and it’s the same reason why I like Me over 98SE. Vista and Me are both similar OS’s in the way that they were “bleeding edge” and, for lack of a better term, pioneering. The development of Vista/Me was not lead/guided by the same team as XP/98, it’s the tick-tock development phase than so many giants use – “tick” being a small(ish) incremental rollout of a new OS, such like 98 was (based on 95), XP was (based on 2000) and 7 is (based on Vista); and “tock” being the major-step-forward rollouts – 95 (major update from Windows 3), Windows 2000 (the first NT-arch OS for the consumer) and Vista (a major 6.0 from WinXP/2000 which was 5.1 and 5.0 respectively).
That is a very broad point I’m making I know, but without mentioning the why’s and what’s maybe my perspective can help push this idea across.
With that said though, I do use 7 as a primary OS – not Vista. And I am thinking of going back to 2008 R2 this weekend 🙂
P.S. RemixedCat I liked your first post – if I do get back into the 2008 Workstation game, maybe we talk more about bringing some of the Vista/2008 [R1] shell features into 2008 R2?
Although I am a fan of Windows 7 over Vista, I do agree with RemixedCat in many aspects. Vista has an absolute truck-load of new features, most complain about how slow and bloaty it is (out of the box at least) but there are so many little things in Vista/R1 that were removed from 7/R2 to please the casual computer user and “streamline” the OS.
I think Vista is amazing compared to XP, and it’s the same reason why I like Me over 98SE. Vista and Me are both similar OS’s in the way that they were “bleeding edge” and, for lack of a better term, pioneering. The development of Vista/Me was not lead/guided by the same team as XP/98, it’s the tick-tock development phase than so many giants use – “tick” being a small(ish) incremental rollout of a new OS, such like 98 was (based on 95), XP was (based on 2000) and 7 is (based on Vista); and “tock” being the major-step-forward rollouts – 95 (major update from Windows 3), Windows 2000 (the first NT-arch OS for the consumer) and Vista (a major 6.0 from WinXP/2000 which was 5.1 and 5.0 respectively).
That is a very broad point I’m making I know, but without mentioning the why’s and what’s maybe my perspective can help push this idea across.
With that said though, I do use 7 as a primary OS – not Vista. And I am thinking of going back to 2008 R2 this weekend 🙂
P.S. RemixedCat I liked your first post – if I do get back into the 2008 Workstation game, maybe we talk more about bringing some of the Vista/2008 [R1] shell features into 2008 R2?
Yesh JC I am VERY interested in hacking in those removed features! That would be an awesome idea. 🙂 I may even add some of my own later. But I am extremely busy right now I am in the midst of designing the world’s biggest arcology for a project. I am also doing other architecture projects.
@JonusC wrote:
Although I am a fan of Windows 7 over Vista, I do agree with RemixedCat in many aspects. Vista has an absolute truck-load of new features, most complain about how slow and bloaty it is (out of the box at least) but there are so many little things in Vista/R1 that were removed from 7/R2 to please the casual computer user and “streamline” the OS.
I don’t think thats quite right.
Two of the biggest problems with Vista, were people thinking it was bloaty because SuperFetch was using up RAM, as intended, and because of the poor driver situation. Not to mention the UAC absurdity.
All of these were fixed in 7, as well as a whole host of stuff.
The development of Vista/Me was not lead/guided by the same team as XP/98, it’s the tick-tock development phase than so many giants use – “tick” being a small(ish) incremental rollout of a new OS, such like 98 was (based on 95), XP was (based on 2000) and 7 is (based on Vista); and “tock” being the major-step-forward rollouts – 95 (major update from Windows 3), Windows 2000 (the first NT-arch OS for the consumer) and Vista (a major 6.0 from WinXP/2000 which was 5.1 and 5.0 respectively).
That is an interesting way of looking at it. I don’t know how broad a point you were making, but I strongly disagree that 7 is based on Vista however. 7 is to Vista as Vista is to XP.
With that said though, I do use 7 as a primary OS – not Vista. And I am thinking of going back to 2008 R2 this weekend 🙂
Well, this thread was about people using R1/Vista over 7. Rejecting 7 because of a few minor UI changes seems insane, when you factor in the performance and other improvements. It’s like sticking with Windows 2003 because you don’t like the new startbar.
I think it is important to note that while a case can be made for using Win2k3 over XP, and R1 over Vista, it is a lot harder to make a case for using R1/R2 over 7.
7 is not babied down at all, and the desktop experience is really no different than using R2, animations and all. It is very configurable, and very usable. The reason I’m using R2 is to learn about hyperv and the new AD stuff, and I do appreciate the minimal approach(although I don’t think that is enough to justify a server os by itself).
Using R1/Vista at this point seems odd, considering you won’t be getting the most out of your hardware by a long shot. Sacrificing performance because you can’t get used to a slightly new paradigm, or miss some animations? Really?
P.S. RemixedCat I liked your first post – if I do get back into the 2008 Workstation game, maybe we talk more about bringing some of the Vista/2008 [R1] shell features into 2008 R2?
A lot of people have already done this for 7. Their work would probably work directly on R2.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Yesh JC I am VERY interested in hacking in those removed features! That would be an awesome idea. 🙂 I may even add some of my own later. But I am extremely busy right now I am in the midst of designing the world’s biggest arcology for a project. I am also doing other architecture projects.
RC, is there any chance you can please respond to my previous reply to you?
I think a lot of what you said was perception and or subjective, and I think a lot may have been inaccurate.
I would like for you to respond to get to a technical basis if there is one.
@JonusC wrote:
Although I am a fan of Windows 7 over Vista, I do agree with RemixedCat in many aspects. Vista has an absolute truck-load of new features, most complain about how slow and bloaty it is (out of the box at least) but there are so many little things in Vista/R1 that were removed from 7/R2 to please the casual computer user and “streamline” the OS.
I don’t think thats quite right.
Two of the biggest problems with Vista, were people thinking it was bloaty because SuperFetch was using up RAM, as intended, and because of the poor driver situation. Not to mention the UAC absurdity.
All of these were fixed in 7, as well as a whole host of stuff.
The development of Vista/Me was not lead/guided by the same team as XP/98, it’s the tick-tock development phase than so many giants use – “tick” being a small(ish) incremental rollout of a new OS, such like 98 was (based on 95), XP was (based on 2000) and 7 is (based on Vista); and “tock” being the major-step-forward rollouts – 95 (major update from Windows 3), Windows 2000 (the first NT-arch OS for the consumer) and Vista (a major 6.0 from WinXP/2000 which was 5.1 and 5.0 respectively).
That is an interesting way of looking at it. I don’t know how broad a point you were making, but I strongly disagree that 7 is based on Vista however. 7 is to Vista as Vista is to XP.
With that said though, I do use 7 as a primary OS – not Vista. And I am thinking of going back to 2008 R2 this weekend 🙂
Well, this thread was about people using R1/Vista over 7. Rejecting 7 because of a few minor UI changes seems insane, when you factor in the performance and other improvements. It’s like sticking with Windows 2003 because you don’t like the new startbar.
I think it is important to note that while a case can be made for using Win2k3 over XP, and R1 over Vista, it is a lot harder to make a case for using R1/R2 over 7.
7 is not babied down at all, and the desktop experience is really no different than using R2, animations and all. It is very configurable, and very usable. The reason I’m using R2 is to learn about hyperv and the new AD stuff, and I do appreciate the minimal approach(although I don’t think that is enough to justify a server os by itself).
Using R1/Vista at this point seems odd, considering you won’t be getting the most out of your hardware by a long shot. Sacrificing performance because you can’t get used to a slightly new paradigm, or miss some animations? Really?
P.S. RemixedCat I liked your first post – if I do get back into the 2008 Workstation game, maybe we talk more about bringing some of the Vista/2008 [R1] shell features into 2008 R2?
A lot of people have already done this for 7. Their work would probably work directly on R2.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Yesh JC I am VERY interested in hacking in those removed features! That would be an awesome idea. 🙂 I may even add some of my own later. But I am extremely busy right now I am in the midst of designing the world’s biggest arcology for a project. I am also doing other architecture projects.
RC, is there any chance you can please respond to my previous reply to you?
I think a lot of what you said was perception and or subjective, and I think a lot may have been inaccurate.
I would like for you to respond to get to a technical basis if there is one.
@JingoFresh wrote:
I don’t think thats quite right.
Two of the biggest problems with Vista, were people thinking it was bloaty because SuperFetch was using up RAM, as intended, and because of the poor driver situation. Not to mention the UAC absurdity.
All of these were fixed in 7, as well as a whole host of stuff.
Well… you didn’t really refute anything I said there, I agree with you completely. The RAM Usage was a myth true, older non-Vista-aware programs would falsely report RAM usage as it also counted the Superfetch cache true. Driver situation was expected – although interestingly, the Vista driver development was actually adopted quicker by OEM’s than the original XP phase-in from memory (probably because XP was absolutely horrible compared to most users still on 98 or Me and many users didn’t switch for years I remember Doom 3 was a big pivotal moment for most to upgrade to 2000/XP). I also remember reading that 50% of Vista crashes were caused by WDDM-related instabilities on ATi and nVidia based graphics machines, at the fault of poor DirectX10 shader programming for the Aero interface – mainly with the GDI+ emulation. And yeah, UAC is a very valid point – Vista’s UAC is horrible and I never had it on, but since using 7 I have never turned it off.
That is an interesting way of looking at it. I don’t know how broad a point you were making, but I strongly disagree that 7 is based on Vista however. 7 is to Vista as Vista is to XP.
You disagreeing with that is, I’m afraid, nothing but your subjective opinion with little to no evidence to back that up. Despite lack of an official statement from Redmond, it was always assumed that 7 was directly based on the Vista codebase; nay, it’s nearly a certainty – just by exploring the system file structure (DLL’s, COM+ layout, SideBySide architecture, etc), examination of registry hives, and even looking around the various MMC plugins/snapins, the similarities are obvious. Not to mention the whole Vista = NT 6.0 and 7 = NT 6.1 situation; it’s more than just a “to keep backwards compatiblity with installers that check major OS version” myth (which is a method of host-version checking LONG phased out of InstallShield, Wise Installer ad MSI/Windows Installers, as well as some minor packers like NSIS and Themida Cryptor), it’s a literal example of the major.minor.revision.bugfix versioning criteria that Microsoft (and most Win32 software vendors) stuck with since Windows 3.0 days. For an example of “7 was always assumed to be directly based on Vista”, see http://www.pcworld.com/article/153624/under_the_hood_windows_7_is_vistas_twin.html
Vista (Windows NT 6.0) and XP (Windows NT 5.1) are worlds apart, especially under the hood. That’s like comparing Windows 95 (Windows 4.0) to Windows 3.1. And, no offence or bigotry at all intended, but as someone who has been reverse engineering Microsoft OS’s for many years (ever heard of “Windows NCLI” or Win5 TinyKRNL Project? Or Windows XP Black Edition? How about Mini95 from older BartPE rescue discs? Not to mention the light work I’ve done here on these forums; but while trying to work a legitimate career recently since growing up from those days mind you), I think I sort of know what I’m talking about. A great example is how Vista (compared to XP) has a completely redesigned, GPU accelerated Window Manager (DWM, the successor to GDI+, which also in-turn emulates GDI+), and also phased out the ancient (and I mean ancient – since Windows 95!) MCI system of Audio subsystem threading in favour of the new Windows Audio Endpoint Builder.
All those major changes first introduced in Vista (GDI+>DWM and MCI>Windows Audio) among many others, are still pretty much exactly the same in Windows 7 – with the exception of some new minor implementations that I know of. DirectCompute, for example, further broadens the GPU-accelerated featureset of the Window Manager and Multimedia software / Games for DirectX11 capable cards, by opening up General Purpose GPU programming capability to mainstream Win32 development via DirectX SDK.
Well, this thread was about people using R1/Vista over 7. Rejecting 7 because of a few minor UI changes seems insane, when you factor in the performance and other improvements. It’s like sticking with Windows 2003 because you don’t like the new startbar.
I think it is important to note that while a case can be made for using Win2k3 over XP, and R1 over Vista, it is a lot harder to make a case for using R1/R2 over 7.
7 is not babied down at all, and the desktop experience is really no different than using R2, animations and all. It is very configurable, and very usable. The reason I’m using R2 is to learn about hyperv and the new AD stuff, and I do appreciate the minimal approach(although I don’t think that is enough to justify a server os by itself).
Using R1/Vista at this point seems odd, considering you won’t be getting the most out of your hardware by a long shot. Sacrificing performance because you can’t get used to a slightly new paradigm, or miss some animations? Really?
I have no complaints about any Microsoft OS’s to be honest, because I’m not an end user who expects Microsoft to be mind readers and I know that they can’t please everybody. [EDIT: That might sound like I’m accusing you of being a said end user after I re-read that, was not my intention sorry!). I used both Vista and 7 since Private Beta days (TechNet Plus subscriber here) and always just worked around the random explorer.exe crash or driver failure (I always had at least 2 Windows installs anyway – one for the newest pre-release, the other for an ol’ XP SP3 nLite’d). But I guess all that can be summed up with why my father still prefers Windows 2000 over XP, and why so many gamers and purists still stay with XP x64 – despite having 8GB of DDR2-1066 RAM, a Q8X00 CPU and an nVidia GTX285. Oh… and an SSD RAID-5 array. (Silly, I know… lol…)
…because it works for them, and they are comfortable with it. Not every human is driven by wisdom of inquisitiveness in the unknown (sadly), but are still tainted by good-old-fashioned fear. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. And for the self proclaimed power users/gamers who stay on an older OS, they all seem to mumble some elitist bullsh*t that basically translates to “i’m in love with my PC the way it is but I won’t admit it” to my ears…. hahaha!
P.S. RemixedCat I liked your first post – if I do get back into the 2008 Workstation game, maybe we talk more about bringing some of the Vista/2008 [R1] shell features into 2008 R2?
A lot of people have already done this for 7. Their work would probably work directly on R2.
Really? On these forums? I’ll have a look around, it’s been a while… or another site? Care to share? 😀
I think a lot of what you said was perception and or subjective, and I think a lot may have been inaccurate.
I would like for you to respond to get to a technical basis if there is one.
You thinking that a lot of what I said was inaccurate is indeed also subjective, fact of the matter is we aren’t blessed with an open code-base like our Post-IBM-Compatible-Age-80×86 brethren in the BSD and Unix hemisphere of PC’s.
I did mention some light technicals there. I could of gone deeper, but I don’t see the need because most of what I said is indeed – just a personal opinion. I won’t deny that.
Well, in final reply to the thread title, I can think of two specific reasons why people use R1 over 7. (1) Need over greed, they legitimately own a copy of R1 and have no need to upgrade to 7/R2 and/or can’t afford it, and (2) They actually use the server functions of Windows Server 2008 R1 (as a Web Developer myself, I have missed out a bit moving up to Windows 7) and don’t see the point or don’t have the time to hack around with R2 just yet, because their home network is rock steady or because it’s simply not feasible to down their inhouse-hosted web server just to whack on the newest, bleeding edge, probably-still-unstable-somewhere Server OS.
We’re not all just OS tinkerers here, some of us do actually use the Server stuff that might be useless to your generic power head/hardcore gamer.
With that said, Windows 7 still crashes occassionally for me. Mainly just the explorer.exe failure, probably because of my custom namespace extensions that were designed for Vista x64 that I haven’t had time to completely bugtest (MSDN is STILL very lacking in Windows 7 MFC/API specs and differences since Vista… oh maybe there are hardly any because Win7 is so similar to Vista?)
Anywho, you do still raise very valid points – please realize I’m not disagreeing with you in anyway, just maybe giving some possible insight in response to your original question is all. I’m not here to shoot anyone down, I’m happy to continue this very involved topical thread if you still are 🙂 or I’ll just be quiet and not say another word if you think I’m being rude or have taken anything I said personally (RemixedCat or anyone else, smack me in line if you feel it necessary 😳 )
@JingoFresh wrote:
I don’t think thats quite right.
Two of the biggest problems with Vista, were people thinking it was bloaty because SuperFetch was using up RAM, as intended, and because of the poor driver situation. Not to mention the UAC absurdity.
All of these were fixed in 7, as well as a whole host of stuff.
Well… you didn’t really refute anything I said there, I agree with you completely. The RAM Usage was a myth true, older non-Vista-aware programs would falsely report RAM usage as it also counted the Superfetch cache true. Driver situation was expected – although interestingly, the Vista driver development was actually adopted quicker by OEM’s than the original XP phase-in from memory (probably because XP was absolutely horrible compared to most users still on 98 or Me and many users didn’t switch for years I remember Doom 3 was a big pivotal moment for most to upgrade to 2000/XP). I also remember reading that 50% of Vista crashes were caused by WDDM-related instabilities on ATi and nVidia based graphics machines, at the fault of poor DirectX10 shader programming for the Aero interface – mainly with the GDI+ emulation. And yeah, UAC is a very valid point – Vista’s UAC is horrible and I never had it on, but since using 7 I have never turned it off.
That is an interesting way of looking at it. I don’t know how broad a point you were making, but I strongly disagree that 7 is based on Vista however. 7 is to Vista as Vista is to XP.
You disagreeing with that is, I’m afraid, nothing but your subjective opinion with little to no evidence to back that up. Despite lack of an official statement from Redmond, it was always assumed that 7 was directly based on the Vista codebase; nay, it’s nearly a certainty – just by exploring the system file structure (DLL’s, COM+ layout, SideBySide architecture, etc), examination of registry hives, and even looking around the various MMC plugins/snapins, the similarities are obvious. Not to mention the whole Vista = NT 6.0 and 7 = NT 6.1 situation; it’s more than just a “to keep backwards compatiblity with installers that check major OS version” myth (which is a method of host-version checking LONG phased out of InstallShield, Wise Installer ad MSI/Windows Installers, as well as some minor packers like NSIS and Themida Cryptor), it’s a literal example of the major.minor.revision.bugfix versioning criteria that Microsoft (and most Win32 software vendors) stuck with since Windows 3.0 days. For an example of “7 was always assumed to be directly based on Vista”, see http://www.pcworld.com/article/153624/under_the_hood_windows_7_is_vistas_twin.html
Vista (Windows NT 6.0) and XP (Windows NT 5.1) are worlds apart, especially under the hood. That’s like comparing Windows 95 (Windows 4.0) to Windows 3.1. And, no offence or bigotry at all intended, but as someone who has been reverse engineering Microsoft OS’s for many years (ever heard of “Windows NCLI” or Win5 TinyKRNL Project? Or Windows XP Black Edition? How about Mini95 from older BartPE rescue discs? Not to mention the light work I’ve done here on these forums; but while trying to work a legitimate career recently since growing up from those days mind you), I think I sort of know what I’m talking about. A great example is how Vista (compared to XP) has a completely redesigned, GPU accelerated Window Manager (DWM, the successor to GDI+, which also in-turn emulates GDI+), and also phased out the ancient (and I mean ancient – since Windows 95!) MCI system of Audio subsystem threading in favour of the new Windows Audio Endpoint Builder.
All those major changes first introduced in Vista (GDI+>DWM and MCI>Windows Audio) among many others, are still pretty much exactly the same in Windows 7 – with the exception of some new minor implementations that I know of. DirectCompute, for example, further broadens the GPU-accelerated featureset of the Window Manager and Multimedia software / Games for DirectX11 capable cards, by opening up General Purpose GPU programming capability to mainstream Win32 development via DirectX SDK.
Well, this thread was about people using R1/Vista over 7. Rejecting 7 because of a few minor UI changes seems insane, when you factor in the performance and other improvements. It’s like sticking with Windows 2003 because you don’t like the new startbar.
I think it is important to note that while a case can be made for using Win2k3 over XP, and R1 over Vista, it is a lot harder to make a case for using R1/R2 over 7.
7 is not babied down at all, and the desktop experience is really no different than using R2, animations and all. It is very configurable, and very usable. The reason I’m using R2 is to learn about hyperv and the new AD stuff, and I do appreciate the minimal approach(although I don’t think that is enough to justify a server os by itself).
Using R1/Vista at this point seems odd, considering you won’t be getting the most out of your hardware by a long shot. Sacrificing performance because you can’t get used to a slightly new paradigm, or miss some animations? Really?
I have no complaints about any Microsoft OS’s to be honest, because I’m not an end user who expects Microsoft to be mind readers and I know that they can’t please everybody. [EDIT: That might sound like I’m accusing you of being a said end user after I re-read that, was not my intention sorry!). I used both Vista and 7 since Private Beta days (TechNet Plus subscriber here) and always just worked around the random explorer.exe crash or driver failure (I always had at least 2 Windows installs anyway – one for the newest pre-release, the other for an ol’ XP SP3 nLite’d). But I guess all that can be summed up with why my father still prefers Windows 2000 over XP, and why so many gamers and purists still stay with XP x64 – despite having 8GB of DDR2-1066 RAM, a Q8X00 CPU and an nVidia GTX285. Oh… and an SSD RAID-5 array. (Silly, I know… lol…)
…because it works for them, and they are comfortable with it. Not every human is driven by wisdom of inquisitiveness in the unknown (sadly), but are still tainted by good-old-fashioned fear. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. And for the self proclaimed power users/gamers who stay on an older OS, they all seem to mumble some elitist bullsh*t that basically translates to “i’m in love with my PC the way it is but I won’t admit it” to my ears…. hahaha!
P.S. RemixedCat I liked your first post – if I do get back into the 2008 Workstation game, maybe we talk more about bringing some of the Vista/2008 [R1] shell features into 2008 R2?
A lot of people have already done this for 7. Their work would probably work directly on R2.
Really? On these forums? I’ll have a look around, it’s been a while… or another site? Care to share? 😀
I think a lot of what you said was perception and or subjective, and I think a lot may have been inaccurate.
I would like for you to respond to get to a technical basis if there is one.
You thinking that a lot of what I said was inaccurate is indeed also subjective, fact of the matter is we aren’t blessed with an open code-base like our Post-IBM-Compatible-Age-80×86 brethren in the BSD and Unix hemisphere of PC’s.
I did mention some light technicals there. I could of gone deeper, but I don’t see the need because most of what I said is indeed – just a personal opinion. I won’t deny that.
Well, in final reply to the thread title, I can think of two specific reasons why people use R1 over 7. (1) Need over greed, they legitimately own a copy of R1 and have no need to upgrade to 7/R2 and/or can’t afford it, and (2) They actually use the server functions of Windows Server 2008 R1 (as a Web Developer myself, I have missed out a bit moving up to Windows 7) and don’t see the point or don’t have the time to hack around with R2 just yet, because their home network is rock steady or because it’s simply not feasible to down their inhouse-hosted web server just to whack on the newest, bleeding edge, probably-still-unstable-somewhere Server OS.
We’re not all just OS tinkerers here, some of us do actually use the Server stuff that might be useless to your generic power head/hardcore gamer.
With that said, Windows 7 still crashes occassionally for me. Mainly just the explorer.exe failure, probably because of my custom namespace extensions that were designed for Vista x64 that I haven’t had time to completely bugtest (MSDN is STILL very lacking in Windows 7 MFC/API specs and differences since Vista… oh maybe there are hardly any because Win7 is so similar to Vista?)
Anywho, you do still raise very valid points – please realize I’m not disagreeing with you in anyway, just maybe giving some possible insight in response to your original question is all. I’m not here to shoot anyone down, I’m happy to continue this very involved topical thread if you still are 🙂 or I’ll just be quiet and not say another word if you think I’m being rude or have taken anything I said personally (RemixedCat or anyone else, smack me in line if you feel it necessary 😳 )
I don’t really mind your little discussion as long as it does not turn into flaming or if it goes way off topic then I might ask you to get back on topic. 🙂
Thanks for the input xxcom, it’s appreciated. I’ve never been one to flame at all, but sometimes I don’t know if I’m being a little too nasty in expressing my point, but it’s nice to know you’re keeping an eye here in case I do go out of line (don’t be afraid to eSmack me one sir! 😆 ) …And everyone notices pretty quickly on all forums I’m a part of, that I have a habit of getting way too involved… so please, don’t be too shy on warning me of off-topic rants either! :geek:
With that said though, RC and JF had some unanswered topics there so I won’t spam this thread anymore unless someone directly quotes me – I think I broke my longest-post record just then.
Thanks for the input xxcom, it’s appreciated. I’ve never been one to flame at all, but sometimes I don’t know if I’m being a little too nasty in expressing my point, but it’s nice to know you’re keeping an eye here in case I do go out of line (don’t be afraid to eSmack me one sir! 😆 ) …And everyone notices pretty quickly on all forums I’m a part of, that I have a habit of getting way too involved… so please, don’t be too shy on warning me of off-topic rants either! :geek:
With that said though, RC and JF had some unanswered topics there so I won’t spam this thread anymore unless someone directly quotes me – I think I broke my longest-post record just then.
@JonusC wrote:
Well… you didn’t really refute anything I said there, I agree with you completely. The RAM Usage was a myth true, older non-Vista-aware programs would falsely report RAM usage as it also counted the Superfetch cache true. Driver situation was expected – Vista driver development was actually adopted quicker than the XP phase-in from memory, and I remember reading that 50% of Vista crashes were caused by WDDM instabilities on ATi and nVidia based graphics machines. And yeah, UAC is a very valid point – Vista’s UAC is horrible and I never had it on, but since using 7 I have never turned it off.
I meant to refute when you said all of the different features that were changed in 7 from Vista, to streamline the OS. I think you were agreeing with RC, so I may have read some of her comments into your reply. I’m sorry if this gave me the wrong interpretation. From what I read of RC’s post, a lot was subjective, and not based in fact at all. Most of the changes of 7 are under the hood, and the ones the user is exposed to…are not that different.
You disagreeing with that is, I’m afraid, nothing but your subjective opinion with little to no evidence to back that up.
Hmm.
Actually, it is based only on fact, and is purely objective.
Saying 7 is based on Vista is due to being misinformed. That’s it.
I’ve actually had this discussion a few times before, so I am happy to get into the nitty gritty if you like, although I would prefer to do that in a separate thread.
Despite lack of an official statement from Redmond, it was always assumed that 7 was directly based on the Vista codebase; nay, it’s nearly a certainty –
It was always assumed by thos who don’t know any better.
Just like it was always assumed that Vista was complete trash. (what is the policy of swearing on this board?)
just by exploring the system file structure (DLL’s, COM+ layout, SideBySide architecture, etc), examination of registry hives, and even looking around the various MMC plugins/snapins, the similarities are obvious.
Really? That’s your argument?
That is all bug meaningless.
So, 7 incorporates some of the same features as Vista. It doesn’t mean it is based on Vista in the way you stated. That approach also discounts all of the changes that would not be exposed in that way.
Not to mention the whole Vista = NT 6.0 and 7 = NT 6.1 situation; it’s more than just a “to keep backwards compatiblity with installers that check major OS version” myth (which is a method of host-version checking LONG phased out of InstallShield, Wise Installer ad MSI/Windows Installers, as well as some minor packers like NSIS and Themida Cryptor),
Actually, the backwards compatability argument is not a myth.
I don’t think you should understand the amount of legacy or crappy software out there.
it’s a literal example of the major.minor.revision.bugfix versioning criteria that Microsoft (and most Win32 software vendors) stuck with since Windows 3.0 days. For an example of “7 was always assumed to be directly based on Vista”, see http://www.pcworld.com/article/153624/under_the_hood_windows_7_is_vistas_twin.html
1. It’s a pcworld article.
2. Its written by a desktop blogger
3. It is not technical at all
4. It is based on using a prerelease version of the OS. That’s it.That would seem to confirm what I said earlier, that 7 is assumed to be vista by those who don’t know any better.
Vista (Windows NT 6.0) and XP (Windows NT 5.1) are worlds apart, especially under the hood. That’s like comparing Windows 95 (Windows 4.0) to Windows 3.1. And, no offence or bigotry at all intended, but as someone who has been reverse engineering Microsoft OS’s for many years (ever heard of “Windows NCLI” or Win5 TinyKRNL Project? Or Windows XP Black Edition? How about Mini95 from older BartPE rescue discs? Not to mention the light work I’ve done here on these forums; but while trying to work a legitimate career recently since growing up from those days mind you), I think I sort of know what I’m talking about.
I never debated Vista was a world apart from XP…not sure why you reinforced that point.
And, no bigotry or offense taken. But as someone who works as a security researcher full time, and has a lot of experience with debugging the OS, and was also involved with a KPP(Kernel Patching Project) with McAfee, then I also know what I’m talking about.
But I guess all that can be summed up with why my father still prefers Windows 2000 over XP, and why so many gamers and purists still stay with XP x64 – despite having 8GB of DDR2-1066 RAM, a Q8X00 CPU and an nVidia GTX285. Oh… and an SSD RAID-5 array. (Silly, I know… lol…)
In my experience, people tend to stick with a platform because of, most of the time, subjective reasons. Not due to an understanding of how thigns work or why(even a rudimentary one), but simply because they note that “things work best” under a certain platform. Instead of troubleshooting driver problems or whatever….they just see that it does not work, and then sticks with what they perceive to be better.
Really? On these forums? I’ll have a look around, it’s been a while… or another site? Care to share? 😀
Ahh, no, not on these forums. Other forums I am a part of…, there was a big list on one of them, I shall source the links for you.
You thinking that a lot of what I said was inaccurate is indeed also subjective, fact of the matter is we aren’t blessed with an open code-base like our Post-IBM-Compatible-Age-80×86 brethren in the BSD and Unix hemisphere of PC’s.
Well, My last reply was actually to RC, in the same post. I tend to reply to the person I have quoted….
I did mention some light technicals there. I could of gone deeper, but I don’t see the need because most of what I said is indeed – just a personal opinion. I won’t deny that.
The problem is, despite the code not being open, we do have access to a lot of information such as the changes and new features in 7 vs Vista. For this reason, it is sufficient to consider 7 a new version, and not just a revision of Vista.
Well, in final reply to the thread title, I can think of two specific reasons why people use R1 over 7. (1) Need over greed, they legitimately own a copy of R1 and have no need to upgrade to 7/R2 and/or can’t afford it
Well, that is interesting indeed.
Although, for most of the people on the board, cost does not seem to have been so much an issue, although it is certainly a good reason.
, and (2) They actually use the server functions of Windows Server 2008 R1 (as a Web Developer myself, I have missed out a bit moving up to Windows 7) and don’t see the point or don’t have the time to hack around with R2 just yet, because their home network is rock steady or because it’s simply not feasible to down their inhouse-hosted web server just to whack on the newest, bleeding edge, probably-still-unstable-somewhere Server OS.
We’re not all just OS tinkerers here, some of us do actually use the Server stuff that might be useless to your generic power head/hardcore gamer
.
Indeed, another good reason.
I should have been clearer though, I was interested in reasons where cost, or “everything working fine” would not come into it.
I.E. you have a new computer, own copies of R1, 7 and R2, why install R1 over 7 or R2?
Anywho, you do still raise very valid points – please realize I’m not disagreeing with you in anyway, just maybe giving some possible insight in response to your original question is all. I’m not here to shoot anyone down, I’m happy to continue this very involved topical thread if you still are 🙂
Indeed 🙂
My only concern is that the discussion of to what extent 7 is based on Vista will take over.
or I’ll just be quiet and not say another word if you think I’m being rude or have taken anything I said personally (RemixedCat or anyone else, smack me in line if you feel it necessary 😳 )
Likewise 🙂 Nothing wrong with strong debate, and I certainly don’t mean to be offensive or rude or such by disagreeing with you.
@JonusC wrote:
Well… you didn’t really refute anything I said there, I agree with you completely. The RAM Usage was a myth true, older non-Vista-aware programs would falsely report RAM usage as it also counted the Superfetch cache true. Driver situation was expected – Vista driver development was actually adopted quicker than the XP phase-in from memory, and I remember reading that 50% of Vista crashes were caused by WDDM instabilities on ATi and nVidia based graphics machines. And yeah, UAC is a very valid point – Vista’s UAC is horrible and I never had it on, but since using 7 I have never turned it off.
I meant to refute when you said all of the different features that were changed in 7 from Vista, to streamline the OS. I think you were agreeing with RC, so I may have read some of her comments into your reply. I’m sorry if this gave me the wrong interpretation. From what I read of RC’s post, a lot was subjective, and not based in fact at all. Most of the changes of 7 are under the hood, and the ones the user is exposed to…are not that different.
You disagreeing with that is, I’m afraid, nothing but your subjective opinion with little to no evidence to back that up.
Hmm.
Actually, it is based only on fact, and is purely objective.
Saying 7 is based on Vista is due to being misinformed. That’s it.
I’ve actually had this discussion a few times before, so I am happy to get into the nitty gritty if you like, although I would prefer to do that in a separate thread.
Despite lack of an official statement from Redmond, it was always assumed that 7 was directly based on the Vista codebase; nay, it’s nearly a certainty –
It was always assumed by thos who don’t know any better.
Just like it was always assumed that Vista was complete trash. (what is the policy of swearing on this board?)
just by exploring the system file structure (DLL’s, COM+ layout, SideBySide architecture, etc), examination of registry hives, and even looking around the various MMC plugins/snapins, the similarities are obvious.
Really? That’s your argument?
That is all bug meaningless.
So, 7 incorporates some of the same features as Vista. It doesn’t mean it is based on Vista in the way you stated. That approach also discounts all of the changes that would not be exposed in that way.
Not to mention the whole Vista = NT 6.0 and 7 = NT 6.1 situation; it’s more than just a “to keep backwards compatiblity with installers that check major OS version” myth (which is a method of host-version checking LONG phased out of InstallShield, Wise Installer ad MSI/Windows Installers, as well as some minor packers like NSIS and Themida Cryptor),
Actually, the backwards compatability argument is not a myth.
I don’t think you should understand the amount of legacy or crappy software out there.
it’s a literal example of the major.minor.revision.bugfix versioning criteria that Microsoft (and most Win32 software vendors) stuck with since Windows 3.0 days. For an example of “7 was always assumed to be directly based on Vista”, see http://www.pcworld.com/article/153624/under_the_hood_windows_7_is_vistas_twin.html
1. It’s a pcworld article.
2. Its written by a desktop blogger
3. It is not technical at all
4. It is based on using a prerelease version of the OS. That’s it.That would seem to confirm what I said earlier, that 7 is assumed to be vista by those who don’t know any better.
Vista (Windows NT 6.0) and XP (Windows NT 5.1) are worlds apart, especially under the hood. That’s like comparing Windows 95 (Windows 4.0) to Windows 3.1. And, no offence or bigotry at all intended, but as someone who has been reverse engineering Microsoft OS’s for many years (ever heard of “Windows NCLI” or Win5 TinyKRNL Project? Or Windows XP Black Edition? How about Mini95 from older BartPE rescue discs? Not to mention the light work I’ve done here on these forums; but while trying to work a legitimate career recently since growing up from those days mind you), I think I sort of know what I’m talking about.
I never debated Vista was a world apart from XP…not sure why you reinforced that point.
And, no bigotry or offense taken. But as someone who works as a security researcher full time, and has a lot of experience with debugging the OS, and was also involved with a KPP(Kernel Patching Project) with McAfee, then I also know what I’m talking about.
But I guess all that can be summed up with why my father still prefers Windows 2000 over XP, and why so many gamers and purists still stay with XP x64 – despite having 8GB of DDR2-1066 RAM, a Q8X00 CPU and an nVidia GTX285. Oh… and an SSD RAID-5 array. (Silly, I know… lol…)
In my experience, people tend to stick with a platform because of, most of the time, subjective reasons. Not due to an understanding of how thigns work or why(even a rudimentary one), but simply because they note that “things work best” under a certain platform. Instead of troubleshooting driver problems or whatever….they just see that it does not work, and then sticks with what they perceive to be better.
Really? On these forums? I’ll have a look around, it’s been a while… or another site? Care to share? 😀
Ahh, no, not on these forums. Other forums I am a part of…, there was a big list on one of them, I shall source the links for you.
You thinking that a lot of what I said was inaccurate is indeed also subjective, fact of the matter is we aren’t blessed with an open code-base like our Post-IBM-Compatible-Age-80×86 brethren in the BSD and Unix hemisphere of PC’s.
Well, My last reply was actually to RC, in the same post. I tend to reply to the person I have quoted….
I did mention some light technicals there. I could of gone deeper, but I don’t see the need because most of what I said is indeed – just a personal opinion. I won’t deny that.
The problem is, despite the code not being open, we do have access to a lot of information such as the changes and new features in 7 vs Vista. For this reason, it is sufficient to consider 7 a new version, and not just a revision of Vista.
Well, in final reply to the thread title, I can think of two specific reasons why people use R1 over 7. (1) Need over greed, they legitimately own a copy of R1 and have no need to upgrade to 7/R2 and/or can’t afford it
Well, that is interesting indeed.
Although, for most of the people on the board, cost does not seem to have been so much an issue, although it is certainly a good reason.
, and (2) They actually use the server functions of Windows Server 2008 R1 (as a Web Developer myself, I have missed out a bit moving up to Windows 7) and don’t see the point or don’t have the time to hack around with R2 just yet, because their home network is rock steady or because it’s simply not feasible to down their inhouse-hosted web server just to whack on the newest, bleeding edge, probably-still-unstable-somewhere Server OS.
We’re not all just OS tinkerers here, some of us do actually use the Server stuff that might be useless to your generic power head/hardcore gamer
.
Indeed, another good reason.
I should have been clearer though, I was interested in reasons where cost, or “everything working fine” would not come into it.
I.E. you have a new computer, own copies of R1, 7 and R2, why install R1 over 7 or R2?
Anywho, you do still raise very valid points – please realize I’m not disagreeing with you in anyway, just maybe giving some possible insight in response to your original question is all. I’m not here to shoot anyone down, I’m happy to continue this very involved topical thread if you still are 🙂
Indeed 🙂
My only concern is that the discussion of to what extent 7 is based on Vista will take over.
or I’ll just be quiet and not say another word if you think I’m being rude or have taken anything I said personally (RemixedCat or anyone else, smack me in line if you feel it necessary 😳 )
Likewise 🙂 Nothing wrong with strong debate, and I certainly don’t mean to be offensive or rude or such by disagreeing with you.
@JingoFresh wrote:
Just like it was always assumed that Vista was complete trash. (what is the policy of swearing on this board?)
Try to avoid it. The [localurl=viewtopic.php?f=21&t=969:33k45phx]rule[/localurl:33k45phx] is:
4) Try to refrain from using swear words. Try and find another way to put it.So in your case you could have said trash (as an example).
@JingoFresh wrote:
Just like it was always assumed that Vista was complete trash. (what is the policy of swearing on this board?)
Try to avoid it. The [localurl=viewtopic.php?f=21&t=969:33k45phx]rule[/localurl:33k45phx] is:
4) Try to refrain from using swear words. Try and find another way to put it.So in your case you could have said trash (as an example).
Ahh, OK, thanks xxcom9a.
I will edit the offending post as well.
Cheers 🙂
@ JF-> I did not just indicate UI features. These are convenience features that are major and they were removed. These features were real time savers in vista and were removed in 7. That is that I am going to say no more on this becuase it is true that they removed some of the features that would actually make computers LESS intimidating to new users. Imagine someone stealing your Ferrarri and replacing it with a BMW. since BMWs are more “accessible” that ferrarris that is what happened with windows 7.
I am NOT talking anymore on this becuase it is downright meaningless to say that removing these features I mentioned are minor or a good decision.
@ JF-> I did not just indicate UI features. These are convenience features that are major and they were removed. These features were real time savers in vista and were removed in 7. That is that I am going to say no more on this becuase it is true that they removed some of the features that would actually make computers LESS intimidating to new users. Imagine someone stealing your Ferrarri and replacing it with a BMW. since BMWs are more “accessible” that ferrarris that is what happened with windows 7.
I am NOT talking anymore on this becuase it is downright meaningless to say that removing these features I mentioned are minor or a good decision.
OK, I admit ignorance there in the “7 is based on Vista” regard. I guess I was caught up in the hype of Win7 teasers being “what Vista should of been”. But yeah, I re-read some Wikipedia articles and can’t believe I forgot this interesting tale of how the codebase that became Windows 7 started straight after XP, and that Vista/Longhorn development started before XP was even RTM – and the reason why Longhorn was delayed for so long was because they brought over much of the features from Blackcomb/Vienna/Windows7 project over to the Longhorn project, not to mention the fact that in 2003 they apparently rebooted the entire Longhorn codebase 😯
A well cited article details it quite well in the first paragraph: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_Windows_Vista
and this interesting snippet:
@http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_Windows_7#History wrote:Later, Blackcomb was delayed and an interim, minor release, codenamed “Longhorn” (named for the Longhorn Tavern between the resorts), was announced for a 2003 release.[5] By the middle of 2003, however, Longhorn had acquired some of the features originally intended for Blackcomb, including WinFS, the Desktop Window Manager, and new versions of system components built on the .NET Framework. After the 2003 “Summer of Worms”, where three major viruses − Blaster, Sobig, and Welchia − exploited flaws in Windows operating systems within a short time period, Microsoft changed its development priorities, putting some of Longhorn’s major development work on hold in order to develop new service packs for Windows XP and Windows Server 2003. Development of Longhorn was also “reset” in September 2004.
Ah yes I was wrong… and everything else, yes – I’m wrong again after doing some further reading – drat 😥
Apparently they are all regarded as major releases. Vista is major over XP and 7 is major over Vista, Even XP is a massive release over 2000 😯 We’ll I’ll be damned… I sure ain’t a computer wizzkid anymore, that’s for sure!
…ah it’s good to be put in my place every now and then ^_^
Looking forward to you finding those threads/that forum if you manage to, be sure to let me know if you do come across it (PM or Misc subforum, doesn’t phase me too much) 🙂 Cheers JF! As you were gentlemen… and ladies? I think 🙄 Bah, I’m off to bed! *Tips hat* it’s good to be back
EDIT: I’d rather a BMW than a Ferrari 😛
OK, I admit ignorance there in the “7 is based on Vista” regard. I guess I was caught up in the hype of Win7 teasers being “what Vista should of been”. But yeah, I re-read some Wikipedia articles and can’t believe I forgot this interesting tale of how the codebase that became Windows 7 started straight after XP, and that Vista/Longhorn development started before XP was even RTM – and the reason why Longhorn was delayed for so long was because they brought over much of the features from Blackcomb/Vienna/Windows7 project over to the Longhorn project, not to mention the fact that in 2003 they apparently rebooted the entire Longhorn codebase 😯
A well cited article details it quite well in the first paragraph: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_Windows_Vista
and this interesting snippet:
@http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_Windows_7#History wrote:Later, Blackcomb was delayed and an interim, minor release, codenamed “Longhorn” (named for the Longhorn Tavern between the resorts), was announced for a 2003 release.[5] By the middle of 2003, however, Longhorn had acquired some of the features originally intended for Blackcomb, including WinFS, the Desktop Window Manager, and new versions of system components built on the .NET Framework. After the 2003 “Summer of Worms”, where three major viruses − Blaster, Sobig, and Welchia − exploited flaws in Windows operating systems within a short time period, Microsoft changed its development priorities, putting some of Longhorn’s major development work on hold in order to develop new service packs for Windows XP and Windows Server 2003. Development of Longhorn was also “reset” in September 2004.
Ah yes I was wrong… and everything else, yes – I’m wrong again after doing some further reading – drat 😥
Apparently they are all regarded as major releases. Vista is major over XP and 7 is major over Vista, Even XP is a massive release over 2000 😯 We’ll I’ll be damned… I sure ain’t a computer wizzkid anymore, that’s for sure!
…ah it’s good to be put in my place every now and then ^_^
Looking forward to you finding those threads/that forum if you manage to, be sure to let me know if you do come across it (PM or Misc subforum, doesn’t phase me too much) 🙂 Cheers JF! As you were gentlemen… and ladies? I think 🙄 Bah, I’m off to bed! *Tips hat* it’s good to be back
EDIT: I’d rather a BMW than a Ferrari 😛
@RemixedCat wrote:
@ JF-> I did not just indicate UI features. These are convenience features that are major and they were removed. These features were real time savers in vista and were removed in 7.
????
Seriously? Like the network activity animation?
As I said, you can enable an awful lot of the settings such as tools tips and such, or they can be added back.
You need to get used to the new UI though. Things have changed, and for the better. It is important to have the skills to adapt in todays computing environment.
Can you give one hard example of a feature that was not just cosmectic and was a time saver, and can not be enabled, or does not have an equivalent in 7?
I asked you to clarify points in your original reply, and you have responded by saying you disagree and can’t be bothered to explain why. Well, I would appreciate if you could be bothered, and I’m sure others may as well.
JC,
It’s all good, it was an interesting discussion :>
Will get those links to you when I remember.
Cheers :>
@RemixedCat wrote:
@ JF-> I did not just indicate UI features. These are convenience features that are major and they were removed. These features were real time savers in vista and were removed in 7.
????
Seriously? Like the network activity animation?
As I said, you can enable an awful lot of the settings such as tools tips and such, or they can be added back.
You need to get used to the new UI though. Things have changed, and for the better. It is important to have the skills to adapt in todays computing environment.
Can you give one hard example of a feature that was not just cosmectic and was a time saver, and can not be enabled, or does not have an equivalent in 7?
I asked you to clarify points in your original reply, and you have responded by saying you disagree and can’t be bothered to explain why. Well, I would appreciate if you could be bothered, and I’m sure others may as well.
JC,
It’s all good, it was an interesting discussion :>
Will get those links to you when I remember.
Cheers :>
Ok the UI features that I DID indicate were lost convenience features that are time savers.
Do you like having to right click on a folder and go to properties just to see if it is shared?
do you like not having the network icon let you know whether you have local only access, or internet access or not at all-or would you just like a worthless icon that does not indicate the state of the network?
would you also not like having quick controls for managing power plans on your laptop, instead, having to go to the control panel all the way there and selecting only two power plans instead of the hidden “high performance” plan?
would you not like to know how many windows explorer windows are open?
would you like to have the name of the song pop up in the miniplayer as well as having seek controls and volume, etc? or just some dumbed down thumbnail with just next and prev buttons?
or status bar not really showing status? or rather a generic “working” with thinking going on?
Ok the UI features that I DID indicate were lost convenience features that are time savers.
Do you like having to right click on a folder and go to properties just to see if it is shared?
do you like not having the network icon let you know whether you have local only access, or internet access or not at all-or would you just like a worthless icon that does not indicate the state of the network?
would you also not like having quick controls for managing power plans on your laptop, instead, having to go to the control panel all the way there and selecting only two power plans instead of the hidden “high performance” plan?
would you not like to know how many windows explorer windows are open?
would you like to have the name of the song pop up in the miniplayer as well as having seek controls and volume, etc? or just some dumbed down thumbnail with just next and prev buttons?
or status bar not really showing status? or rather a generic “working” with thinking going on?
@RemixedCat wrote:
Do you like having to right click on a folder and go to properties just to see if it is shared?
The details pane at the bottom can also tell you if a folder is shared. Although yes, the removal of the shared overlay was a weird decision.
do you like not having the network icon let you know whether you have local only access, or internet access or not at all-or would you just like a worthless icon that does not indicate the state of the network?
If there’s no internet access, the icon will have a warning sign (yellow triangle with exclamation mark) on it.
Personally, I never cared for the activity animation (the screen on the little computer flashing) in older versions of Windows. Then again, I’m mostly on a wireless connection; I can’t even recall right now what the icon is like for wired connections.would you also not like having quick controls for managing power plans on your laptop, instead, having to go to the control panel all the way there and selecting only two power plans instead of the hidden “high performance” plan?
What quick controls did Vista have for managing power plans that 7 doesn’t? Or by “manage”, do you mean “select”?
Personally I never understand why people need to switch between different power plans all the time. I always use the Balanced one, tweaked to my liking.would you not like to know how many windows explorer windows are open?
I cannot think of a scenario where that information would be useful.
would you like to have the name of the song pop up in the miniplayer as well as having seek controls and volume, etc? or just some dumbed down thumbnail with just next and prev buttons?
Personally, I like the new thumbnail view. I have other means for controlling volume (knob on external sound card) and playback (hotkeys on keyboard), but even if I didn’t, I wouldn’t want to have them in the preview either.
Also, I’m pretty sure the song title is shown in the thumbnail tooltip. Not sure though, I’ve been using Zune almost exclusively for the last month or so.or status bar not really showing status? or rather a generic “working” with thinking going on?
I miss the information in the status bar, yes. Not sure what you mean with that second sentence, though.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Do you like having to right click on a folder and go to properties just to see if it is shared?
The details pane at the bottom can also tell you if a folder is shared. Although yes, the removal of the shared overlay was a weird decision.
do you like not having the network icon let you know whether you have local only access, or internet access or not at all-or would you just like a worthless icon that does not indicate the state of the network?
If there’s no internet access, the icon will have a warning sign (yellow triangle with exclamation mark) on it.
Personally, I never cared for the activity animation (the screen on the little computer flashing) in older versions of Windows. Then again, I’m mostly on a wireless connection; I can’t even recall right now what the icon is like for wired connections.would you also not like having quick controls for managing power plans on your laptop, instead, having to go to the control panel all the way there and selecting only two power plans instead of the hidden “high performance” plan?
What quick controls did Vista have for managing power plans that 7 doesn’t? Or by “manage”, do you mean “select”?
Personally I never understand why people need to switch between different power plans all the time. I always use the Balanced one, tweaked to my liking.would you not like to know how many windows explorer windows are open?
I cannot think of a scenario where that information would be useful.
would you like to have the name of the song pop up in the miniplayer as well as having seek controls and volume, etc? or just some dumbed down thumbnail with just next and prev buttons?
Personally, I like the new thumbnail view. I have other means for controlling volume (knob on external sound card) and playback (hotkeys on keyboard), but even if I didn’t, I wouldn’t want to have them in the preview either.
Also, I’m pretty sure the song title is shown in the thumbnail tooltip. Not sure though, I’ve been using Zune almost exclusively for the last month or so.or status bar not really showing status? or rather a generic “working” with thinking going on?
I miss the information in the status bar, yes. Not sure what you mean with that second sentence, though.
using windows 7 is like living in a tract home. everyon’e got the same thing.
Just like people who don’t use the EQ in WMP 12 becuase they cant find it. MS assumes that people just listen to music on a flat eq. but flat eq is like spagetti without cheese! you gotta go through 3 steps to get to the Eq in WMP12.
also the look of it is just boring. I’ve seen office applications edgier looking.
Also , indrek you sound like you don’t multitask much. You prolly don’t have much explorer windows open to care or don’t use grouping.
Most light computer users are ok with the changes, but us hardcore users hate the changes. Just like the people who never paint the walls in thier house and just kep them white and boring.
using windows 7 is like living in a tract home. everyon’e got the same thing.
Just like people who don’t use the EQ in WMP 12 becuase they cant find it. MS assumes that people just listen to music on a flat eq. but flat eq is like spagetti without cheese! you gotta go through 3 steps to get to the Eq in WMP12.
also the look of it is just boring. I’ve seen office applications edgier looking.
Also , indrek you sound like you don’t multitask much. You prolly don’t have much explorer windows open to care or don’t use grouping.
Most light computer users are ok with the changes, but us hardcore users hate the changes. Just like the people who never paint the walls in thier house and just kep them white and boring.
I do have one question….
if you have more then 5 browser tabs open on IE8 in 7/R2 (the taskbar pops up thumbnails of browser tabs open in IE8) does it not show the rest? it would be a HUGE problem for people like me who often have more then 10 tabs open the HUGE amount of thumbnails open would drastically stall the computer. I never tested it much in R2 becuase I just tested gaming performance and never messed with the internet since it was on an unprotected and unconnected machine at someone else’s house.
I just hope it truncates tabs becuase that would be hell in a handbag. imagine loading 20 thumbnails on the taskbar! ouch!
I do have one question….
if you have more then 5 browser tabs open on IE8 in 7/R2 (the taskbar pops up thumbnails of browser tabs open in IE8) does it not show the rest? it would be a HUGE problem for people like me who often have more then 10 tabs open the HUGE amount of thumbnails open would drastically stall the computer. I never tested it much in R2 becuase I just tested gaming performance and never messed with the internet since it was on an unprotected and unconnected machine at someone else’s house.
I just hope it truncates tabs becuase that would be hell in a handbag. imagine loading 20 thumbnails on the taskbar! ouch!
It seems to depend on your screen resolution. With my VM at 800 x 600, I had 3 IE windows, one with 3 tabs and the other 2 with one each and it only showed the open tab in each. (3 previews)
At 1366×768 and one window + 8 tabs open, it showed me 4 thumbnails. I’m not sure how this works for other screen resolutions, but this is what it looked like for me: http://i33.tinypic.com/33mllae.png
Hope that answers some of your questions.
It seems to depend on your screen resolution. With my VM at 800 x 600, I had 3 IE windows, one with 3 tabs and the other 2 with one each and it only showed the open tab in each. (3 previews)
At 1366×768 and one window + 8 tabs open, it showed me 4 thumbnails. I’m not sure how this works for other screen resolutions, but this is what it looked like for me: http://i33.tinypic.com/33mllae.png
Hope that answers some of your questions.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Ok the UI features that I DID indicate were lost convenience features that are time savers.
No, you gave a list of the things that had changed in 7. That is not to say the features are not present in some form, or have an equivalent.
Do you like having to right click on a folder and go to properties just to see if it is shared?
As Indrek pointed out, this information is present in the status. Also hovering over the folder will show you.
do you like not having the network icon let you know whether you have local only access, or internet access or not at all-or would you just like a worthless icon that does not indicate the state of the network?
See, this is an example of you not understanding the changes, and so assuming a feature was removed, when this is not the case.
Again, as Indrek points out, the new display is more than useful. There will be a yellow triangle if there is a problem, and different icons for local and internet access.
The activity animation you refer to was actually useless, as far as accuracy went. It was never a representation of actual network activity, nor was it meant to be.
would you also not like having quick controls for managing power plans on your laptop, instead, having to go to the control panel all the way there and selecting only two power plans instead of the hidden “high performance” plan?
Have you actually used 7?
I run R2 on a laptop, where the power managment is exactly the same as 7’s, and can easily change plans by clicking on the battery/plug icon.
would you not like to know how many windows explorer windows are open?
Errr.
Are you referring to the fact you can’t group applications anymore?
In any case, hovering above any explorer window in the taskbar will show you all open windows…which if anything, is more useful.
As I said, have you actually used 7?
would you like to have the name of the song pop up in the miniplayer as well as having seek controls and volume, etc? or just some dumbed down thumbnail with just next and prev buttons?
That has nothing to do with Windows, per se.
You are free to use any media player you like, even an older version of WMP.
Is this really a reason to remain with Vista?
or status bar not really showing status? or rather a generic “working” with thinking going on?
What do you mean here?
@RemixedCat wrote:
using windows 7 is like living in a tract home. everyon’e got the same thing.
Um.
So, you’re using R1 “just to be different”? Well…, if that is your reasoning and basis, so be it.
I started the thread wondering about technical/empiracl reasons, and so far there are none…as expeced.
Also, I think you underestimate the configurability and extent to which you can theme 7.
Just like people who don’t use the EQ in WMP 12 becuase they cant find it. MS assumes that people just listen to music on a flat eq. but flat eq is like spagetti without cheese! you gotta go through 3 steps to get to the Eq in WMP12.
Again, this has nothing to do with Windows.
also the look of it is just boring. I’ve seen office applications edgier looking.
Really? Which office applications?
Wordpress, Wordstar, OO.org, Abiword, KOffice, Lotus…none of them look particular edgy…
In any event, as I said, 7 is remarkably configurable and themable.
Also , indrek you sound like you don’t multitask much. You prolly don’t have much explorer windows open to care or don’t use grouping.
Or….because there is an equivalent feature in 7.
You either have not tried it, or could not get used to it. Which is fair enough, but don’t claim 7 is less functional.
Most light computer users are ok with the changes, but us hardcore users hate the changes. Just like the people who never paint the walls in thier house and just kep them white and boring.
In all seriousness, in what way are you a hardcore user? You are actively resisting a much improved version of your OS, because you can’t adapt to the new UI changes. You are not getting the most out of your hardware, and appear to be running a server OS “just to be different”.
I’m also curious, what aspects of the server OS do you use? I.E., what features unique to the server OS do you make use of?
@RemixedCat wrote:
I do have one question….
if you have more then 5 browser tabs open on IE8 in 7/R2 (the taskbar pops up thumbnails of browser tabs open in IE8) does it not show the rest? it would be a HUGE problem for people like me who often have more then 10 tabs open the HUGE amount of thumbnails open would drastically stall the computer. I never tested it much in R2 becuase I just tested gaming performance and never messed with the internet since it was on an unprotected and unconnected machine at someone else’s house.
I just hope it truncates tabs becuase that would be hell in a handbag. imagine loading 20 thumbnails on the taskbar! ouch!
R2 is quite well protected by default.
As for your question, I think xxcom is right, and it depends on your resolution.
I just tested in 1680×1050 and it will show thumbnails for 13, after which it lists them, the same as if you were using grouping.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Ok the UI features that I DID indicate were lost convenience features that are time savers.
No, you gave a list of the things that had changed in 7. That is not to say the features are not present in some form, or have an equivalent.
Do you like having to right click on a folder and go to properties just to see if it is shared?
As Indrek pointed out, this information is present in the status. Also hovering over the folder will show you.
do you like not having the network icon let you know whether you have local only access, or internet access or not at all-or would you just like a worthless icon that does not indicate the state of the network?
See, this is an example of you not understanding the changes, and so assuming a feature was removed, when this is not the case.
Again, as Indrek points out, the new display is more than useful. There will be a yellow triangle if there is a problem, and different icons for local and internet access.
The activity animation you refer to was actually useless, as far as accuracy went. It was never a representation of actual network activity, nor was it meant to be.
would you also not like having quick controls for managing power plans on your laptop, instead, having to go to the control panel all the way there and selecting only two power plans instead of the hidden “high performance” plan?
Have you actually used 7?
I run R2 on a laptop, where the power managment is exactly the same as 7’s, and can easily change plans by clicking on the battery/plug icon.
would you not like to know how many windows explorer windows are open?
Errr.
Are you referring to the fact you can’t group applications anymore?
In any case, hovering above any explorer window in the taskbar will show you all open windows…which if anything, is more useful.
As I said, have you actually used 7?
would you like to have the name of the song pop up in the miniplayer as well as having seek controls and volume, etc? or just some dumbed down thumbnail with just next and prev buttons?
That has nothing to do with Windows, per se.
You are free to use any media player you like, even an older version of WMP.
Is this really a reason to remain with Vista?
or status bar not really showing status? or rather a generic “working” with thinking going on?
What do you mean here?
@RemixedCat wrote:
using windows 7 is like living in a tract home. everyon’e got the same thing.
Um.
So, you’re using R1 “just to be different”? Well…, if that is your reasoning and basis, so be it.
I started the thread wondering about technical/empiracl reasons, and so far there are none…as expeced.
Also, I think you underestimate the configurability and extent to which you can theme 7.
Just like people who don’t use the EQ in WMP 12 becuase they cant find it. MS assumes that people just listen to music on a flat eq. but flat eq is like spagetti without cheese! you gotta go through 3 steps to get to the Eq in WMP12.
Again, this has nothing to do with Windows.
also the look of it is just boring. I’ve seen office applications edgier looking.
Really? Which office applications?
Wordpress, Wordstar, OO.org, Abiword, KOffice, Lotus…none of them look particular edgy…
In any event, as I said, 7 is remarkably configurable and themable.
Also , indrek you sound like you don’t multitask much. You prolly don’t have much explorer windows open to care or don’t use grouping.
Or….because there is an equivalent feature in 7.
You either have not tried it, or could not get used to it. Which is fair enough, but don’t claim 7 is less functional.
Most light computer users are ok with the changes, but us hardcore users hate the changes. Just like the people who never paint the walls in thier house and just kep them white and boring.
In all seriousness, in what way are you a hardcore user? You are actively resisting a much improved version of your OS, because you can’t adapt to the new UI changes. You are not getting the most out of your hardware, and appear to be running a server OS “just to be different”.
I’m also curious, what aspects of the server OS do you use? I.E., what features unique to the server OS do you make use of?
@RemixedCat wrote:
I do have one question….
if you have more then 5 browser tabs open on IE8 in 7/R2 (the taskbar pops up thumbnails of browser tabs open in IE8) does it not show the rest? it would be a HUGE problem for people like me who often have more then 10 tabs open the HUGE amount of thumbnails open would drastically stall the computer. I never tested it much in R2 becuase I just tested gaming performance and never messed with the internet since it was on an unprotected and unconnected machine at someone else’s house.
I just hope it truncates tabs becuase that would be hell in a handbag. imagine loading 20 thumbnails on the taskbar! ouch!
R2 is quite well protected by default.
As for your question, I think xxcom is right, and it depends on your resolution.
I just tested in 1680×1050 and it will show thumbnails for 13, after which it lists them, the same as if you were using grouping.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Do you like having to right click on a folder and go to properties just to see if it is shared?
The idea behind that, is, that the new Homegroups presents data/resources on the local machine or the network in the same way, and it’s indistinguishable which is which. Windows 7/2008 R2 also have redesigned Offline Files functionality that caches all network resources automatically (when you have enough space of course – it will auto-delete them if you need more space, much like System Restore points). The basic idea behind it is that Microsoft wanted to make “Local files and Network files all the same thing to the average users’ eye : stuff at my house”. Of course all this is configurable. Keep in mind that, unlike Vista, traditional Shared folders are infact a legacy feature provided for backwards compatibility only (and you have to reduce the security in Network Center to even be able to connect to a Vista-or-earlier machine). It was all replaced with Homegroups.
Yeah, it might suck, but that’s life. I remember when XP first came out – I stayed on Windows 98 for THREE YEARS because I hated everything about it!
As the others said though, how that is present in the status and also hovering over the folder, I agree is a time waster. It’s nice to see at a glance which is accessible to the network at a glance without having to click every-single-folder and checking… they should have provided an option to show/hide the overlay at least. BUT I think all that is useless, because I always managed my shares via MMC anyway.
@RemixedCat wrote:
do you like not having the network icon let you know whether you have local only access, or internet access or not at all-or would you just like a worthless icon that does not indicate the state of the network?
It still states the status of the network exactly like Vista did, the ring = resolving DHCP and/or DNS, yellow exclamation = gateway/DNS error, red cross = no connection…
@Indrek wrote:
@RemixedCat wrote:
would you also not like having quick controls for managing power plans on your laptop, instead, having to go to the control panel all the way there and selecting only two power plans instead of the hidden “high performance” plan?
What quick controls did Vista have for managing power plans that 7 doesn’t? Or by “manage”, do you mean “select”?
Personally I never understand why people need to switch between different power plans all the time. I always use the Balanced one, tweaked to my liking.Enable the power icon in your Notification Area via “Turn system icons on or off”.
The only quarrel I have with Power in 7/R2 is the silly screensaver/monitor shutoff not being aware of 3rd-party video players (MPlayerC-HC) which Vista was, and that I have to turn off my screensaver whenever I play a game with my Logitech joypad and original Vista Gamepad drivers for it. But yeah, changing power plans all the time – all that can be done via POWERCFG batch files/shortcuts if needed (like what I do to temporarily disable screensaver while gamepad gaming).
Alas that’s probably at fault of said 3rd party software not understanding the new API. Regardless, why did they have to change it from Vista? It’s probably related to WDDM 1.1 and/or the EVR Render Engine for video playback I guess. But seriously, that gamepad thing – come on Microsoft, please make your next generic HID input driver have the checkbox “allow this input device to wake the computer” – it is there in XP for the exact same gamepad!
@RemixedCat wrote:
would you not like to know how many windows explorer windows are open?
Nope. Why? Waste of precious superbar real-estate (I never use the combine thing, it makes things slower trying to navigate your windows when you’re working in a lot of programs/sessions/folders).
@RemixedCat wrote:
would you like to have the name of the song pop up in the miniplayer as well as having seek controls and volume, etc? or just some dumbed down thumbnail with just next and prev buttons?
Windows Media Player…???? 😯 MediaMonkey FTW!
@RemixedCat wrote:
or status bar not really showing status? or rather a generic “working” with thinking going on?
Yeah Windows 7 is a little lacking in the verbosity department… I also hate it how when you have many items selected, you have to click “Show more details” in the info-panel just to find the size. WTF??? In XP and Vista it was right there in the Status bar!
@RemixedCat wrote:
also the look of it is just boring.
I don’t even use Themes and never did, so I’m easily pleased there. 😆
@RemixedCat wrote:
Also , indrek you sound like you don’t multitask much. You prolly don’t have much explorer windows open to care or don’t use grouping.
Call me an XP old schooler, but I’d rather have a three-notch-high taskbar than resort to the horrible horrible grouping in Vista or 7… I distinguish my Explorer windows by their title bar which is it’s folder path, not by thumbnail that’s indistinguishable from the other explorer windows…
@RemixedCat wrote:
I do have one question….
Well… Most light computer users are ok with the changes, but us hardcore users only EVER use IE8 for cross-browser testing of our web productions. No, it’s not because “it’s insecure” or “it’s slow” – it’s simply because it is lacking in all areas in general. Chromium 4 Devbuilds, Opera 10.x and Mozilla Minefield Browser 3.7a1 (or even Firefox 3.6 Beta 2) are quite attractive alternatives…
…but yeah, I’m an ex-Linux user (Slackware – that’s right foo’s the REAL linux!) 😆
@RemixedCat wrote:
Do you like having to right click on a folder and go to properties just to see if it is shared?
The idea behind that, is, that the new Homegroups presents data/resources on the local machine or the network in the same way, and it’s indistinguishable which is which. Windows 7/2008 R2 also have redesigned Offline Files functionality that caches all network resources automatically (when you have enough space of course – it will auto-delete them if you need more space, much like System Restore points). The basic idea behind it is that Microsoft wanted to make “Local files and Network files all the same thing to the average users’ eye : stuff at my house”. Of course all this is configurable. Keep in mind that, unlike Vista, traditional Shared folders are infact a legacy feature provided for backwards compatibility only (and you have to reduce the security in Network Center to even be able to connect to a Vista-or-earlier machine). It was all replaced with Homegroups.
Yeah, it might suck, but that’s life. I remember when XP first came out – I stayed on Windows 98 for THREE YEARS because I hated everything about it!
As the others said though, how that is present in the status and also hovering over the folder, I agree is a time waster. It’s nice to see at a glance which is accessible to the network at a glance without having to click every-single-folder and checking… they should have provided an option to show/hide the overlay at least. BUT I think all that is useless, because I always managed my shares via MMC anyway.
@RemixedCat wrote:
do you like not having the network icon let you know whether you have local only access, or internet access or not at all-or would you just like a worthless icon that does not indicate the state of the network?
It still states the status of the network exactly like Vista did, the ring = resolving DHCP and/or DNS, yellow exclamation = gateway/DNS error, red cross = no connection…
@Indrek wrote:
@RemixedCat wrote:
would you also not like having quick controls for managing power plans on your laptop, instead, having to go to the control panel all the way there and selecting only two power plans instead of the hidden “high performance” plan?
What quick controls did Vista have for managing power plans that 7 doesn’t? Or by “manage”, do you mean “select”?
Personally I never understand why people need to switch between different power plans all the time. I always use the Balanced one, tweaked to my liking.Enable the power icon in your Notification Area via “Turn system icons on or off”.
The only quarrel I have with Power in 7/R2 is the silly screensaver/monitor shutoff not being aware of 3rd-party video players (MPlayerC-HC) which Vista was, and that I have to turn off my screensaver whenever I play a game with my Logitech joypad and original Vista Gamepad drivers for it. But yeah, changing power plans all the time – all that can be done via POWERCFG batch files/shortcuts if needed (like what I do to temporarily disable screensaver while gamepad gaming).
Alas that’s probably at fault of said 3rd party software not understanding the new API. Regardless, why did they have to change it from Vista? It’s probably related to WDDM 1.1 and/or the EVR Render Engine for video playback I guess. But seriously, that gamepad thing – come on Microsoft, please make your next generic HID input driver have the checkbox “allow this input device to wake the computer” – it is there in XP for the exact same gamepad!
@RemixedCat wrote:
would you not like to know how many windows explorer windows are open?
Nope. Why? Waste of precious superbar real-estate (I never use the combine thing, it makes things slower trying to navigate your windows when you’re working in a lot of programs/sessions/folders).
@RemixedCat wrote:
would you like to have the name of the song pop up in the miniplayer as well as having seek controls and volume, etc? or just some dumbed down thumbnail with just next and prev buttons?
Windows Media Player…???? 😯 MediaMonkey FTW!
@RemixedCat wrote:
or status bar not really showing status? or rather a generic “working” with thinking going on?
Yeah Windows 7 is a little lacking in the verbosity department… I also hate it how when you have many items selected, you have to click “Show more details” in the info-panel just to find the size. WTF??? In XP and Vista it was right there in the Status bar!
@RemixedCat wrote:
also the look of it is just boring.
I don’t even use Themes and never did, so I’m easily pleased there. 😆
@RemixedCat wrote:
Also , indrek you sound like you don’t multitask much. You prolly don’t have much explorer windows open to care or don’t use grouping.
Call me an XP old schooler, but I’d rather have a three-notch-high taskbar than resort to the horrible horrible grouping in Vista or 7… I distinguish my Explorer windows by their title bar which is it’s folder path, not by thumbnail that’s indistinguishable from the other explorer windows…
@RemixedCat wrote:
I do have one question….
Well… Most light computer users are ok with the changes, but us hardcore users only EVER use IE8 for cross-browser testing of our web productions. No, it’s not because “it’s insecure” or “it’s slow” – it’s simply because it is lacking in all areas in general. Chromium 4 Devbuilds, Opera 10.x and Mozilla Minefield Browser 3.7a1 (or even Firefox 3.6 Beta 2) are quite attractive alternatives…
…but yeah, I’m an ex-Linux user (Slackware – that’s right foo’s the REAL linux!) 😆
JC,
Just three points to your post.
You don’t need to use batch script or go to control panel to switch power plans. I do this often just from clicking the power icon.
The show more details behavior can be configured as you like. It’s not a step back from Vista.
the screensaver being aware of mplayer. This is depednant on what driver mplayer is using. I use smplayer myself, and with the direct3d driver(to get aero transparency), it works fine.
(slack user here as well :> )
JC,
Just three points to your post.
You don’t need to use batch script or go to control panel to switch power plans. I do this often just from clicking the power icon.
The show more details behavior can be configured as you like. It’s not a step back from Vista.
the screensaver being aware of mplayer. This is depednant on what driver mplayer is using. I use smplayer myself, and with the direct3d driver(to get aero transparency), it works fine.
(slack user here as well :> )
@JingoFresh wrote:
You don’t need to use batch script or go to control panel to switch power plans. I do this often just from clicking the power icon.
No I don’t and you are correct, however I have a single shortcut that (1) disables screensaver, (2) launches game and sits around idle, then (3) when game quits, re-enables screensaver. Having that one shortcut is a lot easier than clicking around the GUI many times 😉 but my apologies, that was off-topic – it’s the exact same case with gamepads in Vista, but XP is not affected. I bet MS do it on purpose, because I don’t have an Xbox controller 😆
EDIT: For some reason I can’t enable the Power icon in my Notification Area. And when I go to Power in C.P., I have to click “Change settings that are currently unavailable” because the plans are greyed-out. WTF? UAC prevents changing power plans? You’ve got to be kidding me… Have I missed something? I only installed 2008 R2 within the past 24 hours. And yes I do have Sleep working on the Security Screen.
@JingoFresh wrote:
The show more details behavior can be configured as you like. It’s not a step back from Vista.
What I ment was, if I select 1000+ (or whatever) files of many types in one folder, in Vista and XP it will say “523 MB total” in the status bar straight away. In Windows 7, it doesn’t.
But how can I configure it in 7? I have not discovered such ability.
@JingoFresh wrote:
the screensaver being aware of mplayer. This is depednant on what driver mplayer is using. I use smplayer myself, and with the direct3d driver(to get aero transparency), it works fine.
Well for starters, sorry I made a mistake – the screensaver doesn’t engage (in the case of video playback). It’s the monitor power savings. I think it’s an MPlayerC-HC bug to be honest. I don’t think it’s the driver/renderer, because it is using EVR – the exact same DirectX10 engine that Windows Media Player uses internally (the evolution of VMR9). And MPlayerC was always Aero transparent, even on the old release before stated it was Vista compatible, since it appears to use standard Win32 window drawing (it is developed in Visual C++ AFAIK).
@JingoFresh wrote:
(slack user here as well :> )
I actually have no time for Linux these days, always working… I tried booting in the other day, and was slightly overwhelmed… so I’m more of an ex-slacker i guess, not out of choice but by lack of time 🙁@JingoFresh wrote:
You don’t need to use batch script or go to control panel to switch power plans. I do this often just from clicking the power icon.
No I don’t and you are correct, however I have a single shortcut that (1) disables screensaver, (2) launches game and sits around idle, then (3) when game quits, re-enables screensaver. Having that one shortcut is a lot easier than clicking around the GUI many times 😉 but my apologies, that was off-topic – it’s the exact same case with gamepads in Vista, but XP is not affected. I bet MS do it on purpose, because I don’t have an Xbox controller 😆
EDIT: For some reason I can’t enable the Power icon in my Notification Area. And when I go to Power in C.P., I have to click “Change settings that are currently unavailable” because the plans are greyed-out. WTF? UAC prevents changing power plans? You’ve got to be kidding me… Have I missed something? I only installed 2008 R2 within the past 24 hours. And yes I do have Sleep working on the Security Screen.
@JingoFresh wrote:
The show more details behavior can be configured as you like. It’s not a step back from Vista.
What I ment was, if I select 1000+ (or whatever) files of many types in one folder, in Vista and XP it will say “523 MB total” in the status bar straight away. In Windows 7, it doesn’t.
But how can I configure it in 7? I have not discovered such ability.
@JingoFresh wrote:
the screensaver being aware of mplayer. This is depednant on what driver mplayer is using. I use smplayer myself, and with the direct3d driver(to get aero transparency), it works fine.
Well for starters, sorry I made a mistake – the screensaver doesn’t engage (in the case of video playback). It’s the monitor power savings. I think it’s an MPlayerC-HC bug to be honest. I don’t think it’s the driver/renderer, because it is using EVR – the exact same DirectX10 engine that Windows Media Player uses internally (the evolution of VMR9). And MPlayerC was always Aero transparent, even on the old release before stated it was Vista compatible, since it appears to use standard Win32 window drawing (it is developed in Visual C++ AFAIK).
@JingoFresh wrote:
(slack user here as well :> )
I actually have no time for Linux these days, always working… I tried booting in the other day, and was slightly overwhelmed… so I’m more of an ex-slacker i guess, not out of choice but by lack of time 🙁@JonusC wrote:
Having that one shortcut is a lot easier than clicking around the GUI many times 😉
Ahh, fair enough 🙂
EDIT: For some reason I can’t enable the Power icon in my Notification Area. And when I go to Power in C.P., I have to click “Change settings that are currently unavailable” because the plans are greyed-out. WTF? UAC prevents changing power plans? You’ve got to be kidding me… Have I missed something? I only installed 2008 R2 within the past 24 hours. And yes I do have Sleep working on the Security Screen.
Yes, it is indeed restricted for normal uses. I do wonder why this is…, but you can easily add the right to your normal user account with a few group policy changes.
What I ment was, if I select 1000+ (or whatever) files of many types in one folder, in Vista and XP it will say “523 MB total” in the status bar straight away. In Windows 7, it doesn’t.
I can’t recall exactly, but this can definitely be changed by a registry setting.
Or do you mean not having to click the show more details part?
And MPlayerC was always Aero transparent, even on the old release before stated it was Vista compatible, since it appears to use standard Win32 window drawing (it is developed in Visual C++ AFAIK).
Ahh, I thought you were talking about a variant of mplayer, but you meant mplayerc. I’m just more used to seeing it written as MPC. mplayer/smplayer is quite a different beast, which you may also want to check out. It’s quite a bit more configurable and handy then MPC.
@JingoFresh wrote:
I actually have no time for Linux these days, always working… I tried booting in the other day, and was slightly overwhelmed… so I’m more of an ex-slacker i guess, not out of choice but by lack of time 🙁
I still need a *nix for a lot of network auditing and security stuff…and prefer it for some programming stuff.
Slack 64 and R2…best of both worlds :>
@JonusC wrote:
Having that one shortcut is a lot easier than clicking around the GUI many times 😉
Ahh, fair enough 🙂
EDIT: For some reason I can’t enable the Power icon in my Notification Area. And when I go to Power in C.P., I have to click “Change settings that are currently unavailable” because the plans are greyed-out. WTF? UAC prevents changing power plans? You’ve got to be kidding me… Have I missed something? I only installed 2008 R2 within the past 24 hours. And yes I do have Sleep working on the Security Screen.
Yes, it is indeed restricted for normal uses. I do wonder why this is…, but you can easily add the right to your normal user account with a few group policy changes.
What I ment was, if I select 1000+ (or whatever) files of many types in one folder, in Vista and XP it will say “523 MB total” in the status bar straight away. In Windows 7, it doesn’t.
I can’t recall exactly, but this can definitely be changed by a registry setting.
Or do you mean not having to click the show more details part?
And MPlayerC was always Aero transparent, even on the old release before stated it was Vista compatible, since it appears to use standard Win32 window drawing (it is developed in Visual C++ AFAIK).
Ahh, I thought you were talking about a variant of mplayer, but you meant mplayerc. I’m just more used to seeing it written as MPC. mplayer/smplayer is quite a different beast, which you may also want to check out. It’s quite a bit more configurable and handy then MPC.
@JingoFresh wrote:
I actually have no time for Linux these days, always working… I tried booting in the other day, and was slightly overwhelmed… so I’m more of an ex-slacker i guess, not out of choice but by lack of time 🙁
I still need a *nix for a lot of network auditing and security stuff…and prefer it for some programming stuff.
Slack 64 and R2…best of both worlds :>
@JingoFresh wrote:
Yes, it is indeed restricted for normal uses. I do wonder why this is…, but you can easily add the right to your normal user account with a few group policy changes.
Come again? EDIT: Sorry, for some reason I thought you were talking about a context menu entry 😆 nevermind, I already did it 😉
@JingoFresh wrote:
What I ment was, if I select 1000+ (or whatever) files of many types in one folder, in Vista and XP it will say “523 MB total” in the status bar straight away. In Windows 7, it doesn’t.
I can’t recall exactly, but this can definitely be changed by a registry setting.
Or do you mean not having to click the show more details part?
I mean this…
[attachment=0:3tqm1vas]where_is_size.png[/attachment:3tqm1vas]
…it’s not on the status bar, like it was with Vista and XP, and I have to make another click just to see the sum of all the KB’s that are already counted in the column. Clicking ‘Show more details’ thrashes the HDD when they files are big (and the folder isn’t indexed), so it obviously triggers a re-count. If there is a reg tweak or g.p. setting I’d love to know it… I’m still due to finish the mapping of Vista and XP registry hives…EDIT: Wow, Server 2008 R2 is faster than 7… I think I’m going to keep Aero on, it’s actually not sluggish after installing all my usual shell hook programs 😀
@JingoFresh wrote:
Ahh, I thought you were talking about a variant of mplayer, but you meant mplayerc. I’m just more used to seeing it written as MPC. mplayer/smplayer is quite a different beast, which you may also want to check out. It’s quite a bit more configurable and handy then MPC.
I think I will. But tell me, it’s not another VLC is it? I could never get DXVA-accelerated WMV and MPEG-4/AVC acceleration in that (i.e. GPU accelerated HiDef).
@JingoFresh wrote:
I still need a *nix for a lot of network auditing and security stuff…and prefer it for some programming stuff.
Slack 64 and R2…best of both worlds :>
Yeah, I don’t do anything Network Engineering related anymore – but I do still play around with code hacking every now and then. I am starting development for Symbian S60 [Nokia Smartphones] which is impossible in a non Windows environment, and although I do a lot of OpenSource development (mainly Joomla/PHP) I just find it easier to do in Windows these days.
Mind you, the main reason I was pushed back to Windows from Slack was the poor situation of Sound stacks in all Linux flavours. I never could get a persistent situation of stability just for listening to music in Amarok while still getting sound support in Firefox (Youtube for e.g.), I would have to shutdown Amarok completely. That’s the best I got after weeks of fiddling, and I had a multiple sound engines/subsystems installed (whatever they are called… you know what I mean) and just got sick of juggling it all…
Basically, I’ve gotten too old for that s*** – i’d rather be at the pub 😆 but it was fun while it lasted. Maybe i’ll revisit the world of OpenSource OS when AROS matures a little more.
@JingoFresh wrote:
Yes, it is indeed restricted for normal uses. I do wonder why this is…, but you can easily add the right to your normal user account with a few group policy changes.
Come again? EDIT: Sorry, for some reason I thought you were talking about a context menu entry 😆 nevermind, I already did it 😉
@JingoFresh wrote:
What I ment was, if I select 1000+ (or whatever) files of many types in one folder, in Vista and XP it will say “523 MB total” in the status bar straight away. In Windows 7, it doesn’t.
I can’t recall exactly, but this can definitely be changed by a registry setting.
Or do you mean not having to click the show more details part?
I mean this…
[attachment=0:3tqm1vas]where_is_size.png[/attachment:3tqm1vas]
…it’s not on the status bar, like it was with Vista and XP, and I have to make another click just to see the sum of all the KB’s that are already counted in the column. Clicking ‘Show more details’ thrashes the HDD when they files are big (and the folder isn’t indexed), so it obviously triggers a re-count. If there is a reg tweak or g.p. setting I’d love to know it… I’m still due to finish the mapping of Vista and XP registry hives…EDIT: Wow, Server 2008 R2 is faster than 7… I think I’m going to keep Aero on, it’s actually not sluggish after installing all my usual shell hook programs 😀
@JingoFresh wrote:
Ahh, I thought you were talking about a variant of mplayer, but you meant mplayerc. I’m just more used to seeing it written as MPC. mplayer/smplayer is quite a different beast, which you may also want to check out. It’s quite a bit more configurable and handy then MPC.
I think I will. But tell me, it’s not another VLC is it? I could never get DXVA-accelerated WMV and MPEG-4/AVC acceleration in that (i.e. GPU accelerated HiDef).
@JingoFresh wrote:
I still need a *nix for a lot of network auditing and security stuff…and prefer it for some programming stuff.
Slack 64 and R2…best of both worlds :>
Yeah, I don’t do anything Network Engineering related anymore – but I do still play around with code hacking every now and then. I am starting development for Symbian S60 [Nokia Smartphones] which is impossible in a non Windows environment, and although I do a lot of OpenSource development (mainly Joomla/PHP) I just find it easier to do in Windows these days.
Mind you, the main reason I was pushed back to Windows from Slack was the poor situation of Sound stacks in all Linux flavours. I never could get a persistent situation of stability just for listening to music in Amarok while still getting sound support in Firefox (Youtube for e.g.), I would have to shutdown Amarok completely. That’s the best I got after weeks of fiddling, and I had a multiple sound engines/subsystems installed (whatever they are called… you know what I mean) and just got sick of juggling it all…
Basically, I’ve gotten too old for that s*** – i’d rather be at the pub 😆 but it was fun while it lasted. Maybe i’ll revisit the world of OpenSource OS when AROS matures a little more.
Yesh linux has alot of problems with sound! I still cannot get any multichannel working on my creative soundcard in debian and ubuntu!
gentoo was better but still bleh and meh. I could only hear like half of the sounds of movies and it sounded really bad and grindy.
I have tested 7 it was the build right before RTM and ran it off vm and I did not care for it as much as R2.
man to have the hacks to make it even more feature full in R2 would totally make my day.
the reason I use WMP is becuase it integrates very well with my sansa fuze. other players always screw up the playlists and I like only messing with one program to play and manage music. winamp always wreaks havok by not transferring some songs becuase of some old filename stuff and won’t transfer VBR files at all to the device. I have to reencode them for some reason. it also would not like files that were part of a big dj mix that was all one mp3 and I used mp3splt to split it. I personally think WMP11 is the best version because of the UI feels unified. I migth give foobar a try if I switch to R2 though since it looks awesome.
Yesh linux has alot of problems with sound! I still cannot get any multichannel working on my creative soundcard in debian and ubuntu!
gentoo was better but still bleh and meh. I could only hear like half of the sounds of movies and it sounded really bad and grindy.
I have tested 7 it was the build right before RTM and ran it off vm and I did not care for it as much as R2.
man to have the hacks to make it even more feature full in R2 would totally make my day.
the reason I use WMP is becuase it integrates very well with my sansa fuze. other players always screw up the playlists and I like only messing with one program to play and manage music. winamp always wreaks havok by not transferring some songs becuase of some old filename stuff and won’t transfer VBR files at all to the device. I have to reencode them for some reason. it also would not like files that were part of a big dj mix that was all one mp3 and I used mp3splt to split it. I personally think WMP11 is the best version because of the UI feels unified. I migth give foobar a try if I switch to R2 though since it looks awesome.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Yesh linux has alot of problems with sound! I still cannot get any multichannel working on my creative soundcard in debian and ubuntu!
Omg… don’t get me started on Creative 👿 … it was hard enough getting my Audigy to work on Windows 7 x64, I have to use the hacked drivers by daniel_k – and use ReadyDriver Plus to disable driver signing… my next card will be one of those ASUS Xonar’s or something else I think. Probably something with ASIO support for my music production.
The only debian-based distro I’ve used was Ubuntu, I never bothered with the others… I’m more a fan of the Red Hat forks (Fedora + Mandriva being a couple of major originally-RH-based distro’s)
@RemixedCat wrote:
the reason I use WMP is becuase it integrates very well with my sansa fuze. {…}
Ah fair enough, yes it uses Portable Device Enumerator rather than Mass Storage or w/e. I use an iPod Touch [shame] and MediaMonkey always had great support for iPods 🙂
@RemixedCat wrote:
Yesh linux has alot of problems with sound! I still cannot get any multichannel working on my creative soundcard in debian and ubuntu!
Omg… don’t get me started on Creative 👿 … it was hard enough getting my Audigy to work on Windows 7 x64, I have to use the hacked drivers by daniel_k – and use ReadyDriver Plus to disable driver signing… my next card will be one of those ASUS Xonar’s or something else I think. Probably something with ASIO support for my music production.
The only debian-based distro I’ve used was Ubuntu, I never bothered with the others… I’m more a fan of the Red Hat forks (Fedora + Mandriva being a couple of major originally-RH-based distro’s)
@RemixedCat wrote:
the reason I use WMP is becuase it integrates very well with my sansa fuze. {…}
Ah fair enough, yes it uses Portable Device Enumerator rather than Mass Storage or w/e. I use an iPod Touch [shame] and MediaMonkey always had great support for iPods 🙂
what I rteally don’t get with driver companies are. They can get something called MSDN so they can get the OS like a whole year before the consumers can get it! SO WHY DON’T THEY? windows 7 was publicly avalible like in late january! so why couldn’t they start working on the drivers then and have the perfected BEFORE THE RTM!?. This agrivates me to no end. THIS IS THE WHOLE REASON MS HAS STUFF LIKE MSDN IS SO THEY CAN GET THE SOFTWARE DONE AHEAD OF TIME!
what I rteally don’t get with driver companies are. They can get something called MSDN so they can get the OS like a whole year before the consumers can get it! SO WHY DON’T THEY? windows 7 was publicly avalible like in late january! so why couldn’t they start working on the drivers then and have the perfected BEFORE THE RTM!?. This agrivates me to no end. THIS IS THE WHOLE REASON MS HAS STUFF LIKE MSDN IS SO THEY CAN GET THE SOFTWARE DONE AHEAD OF TIME!
@RemixedCat wrote:
Also , indrek you sound like you don’t multitask much. You prolly don’t have much explorer windows open to care or don’t use grouping.
I use the default Win7 grouping method (always group, hide labels). As for multitasking, I’m not sure what you mean by “much”, and I won’t start listing the programs I use, but suffice to say I do multitask enough. I don’t have a lot of Explorer Windows open, though – 4 or 5, tops, and that’s when I copy files back and forth. Never had a problem finding the right folder, and never missed having the number of Explorer windows.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Also , indrek you sound like you don’t multitask much. You prolly don’t have much explorer windows open to care or don’t use grouping.
I use the default Win7 grouping method (always group, hide labels). As for multitasking, I’m not sure what you mean by “much”, and I won’t start listing the programs I use, but suffice to say I do multitask enough. I don’t have a lot of Explorer Windows open, though – 4 or 5, tops, and that’s when I copy files back and forth. Never had a problem finding the right folder, and never missed having the number of Explorer windows.
oh well I’m tired of beating this dead cow or horse or other farm animals over this 😛
but yesh those who want the older taskbar can have it back but it takes a while.
default 7/R2 was a little bland. I always theme stuff.
I also like dark looks becuase, well to tell the truth I am highly photophobic (sensitive to light) so alot of bright things bother me and with the whitewashing fad it really bugs me. sometimes I have to put sunglasses or dim my display on if some sites use too much white or if the text is too light and strains my eyes very easily.
this is why I am really irritated at the way some people don’t think about people like me and there’s alot of people like me who are photophobic. Its sad really they only keep the mainstream people in mind and never think of anything outside the box. so many companies who produce specialy items are going out of business or discontinuing those lines. like this one pasta company quit making the pasta I liked. 🙁 I almost lived on that stuff! I had to try a different brand and I hated it. eww. 🙁
oh well I’m tired of beating this dead cow or horse or other farm animals over this 😛
but yesh those who want the older taskbar can have it back but it takes a while.
default 7/R2 was a little bland. I always theme stuff.
I also like dark looks becuase, well to tell the truth I am highly photophobic (sensitive to light) so alot of bright things bother me and with the whitewashing fad it really bugs me. sometimes I have to put sunglasses or dim my display on if some sites use too much white or if the text is too light and strains my eyes very easily.
this is why I am really irritated at the way some people don’t think about people like me and there’s alot of people like me who are photophobic. Its sad really they only keep the mainstream people in mind and never think of anything outside the box. so many companies who produce specialy items are going out of business or discontinuing those lines. like this one pasta company quit making the pasta I liked. 🙁 I almost lived on that stuff! I had to try a different brand and I hated it. eww. 🙁
@RemixedCat wrote:
what I rteally don’t get with driver companies are. They can get something called MSDN so they can get the OS like a whole year before the consumers can get it! SO WHY DON’T THEY? windows 7 was publicly avalible like in late january! so why couldn’t they start working on the drivers then and have the perfected BEFORE THE RTM!?. This agrivates me to no end. THIS IS THE WHOLE REASON MS HAS STUFF LIKE MSDN IS SO THEY CAN GET THE SOFTWARE DONE AHEAD OF TIME!
It’s all about what the wisest business decision is… that’s pretty much the fact of it. Whether you can see the reason behind that, or believe in a more refined… alternate way of things… what’s the policy on Politics on this board? 😆 Education is funny… 🙄
@RemixedCat wrote:
what I rteally don’t get with driver companies are. They can get something called MSDN so they can get the OS like a whole year before the consumers can get it! SO WHY DON’T THEY? windows 7 was publicly avalible like in late january! so why couldn’t they start working on the drivers then and have the perfected BEFORE THE RTM!?. This agrivates me to no end. THIS IS THE WHOLE REASON MS HAS STUFF LIKE MSDN IS SO THEY CAN GET THE SOFTWARE DONE AHEAD OF TIME!
It’s all about what the wisest business decision is… that’s pretty much the fact of it. Whether you can see the reason behind that, or believe in a more refined… alternate way of things… what’s the policy on Politics on this board? 😆 Education is funny… 🙄
@JonusC wrote:
…it’s not on the status bar, like it was with Vista and XP, and I have to make another click just to see the sum of all the KB’s that are already counted in the column. Clicking ‘Show more details’ thrashes the HDD when they files are big (and the folder isn’t indexed), so it obviously triggers a re-count. If there is a reg tweak or g.p. setting I’d love to know it… I’m still due to finish the mapping of Vista and XP registry hives…
Ahh.
No, I know of no way to change that.
I usually just use the tooltip or right click properties when I want toal sizes…the tooltip option works quite fine IMO…
EDIT: Wow, Server 2008 R2 is faster than 7… I think I’m going to keep Aero on, it’s actually not sluggish after installing all my usual shell hook programs 😀
You should *always* keep aero on.
It offloads work to the GPU, so even if you don’t like all the new featres, you can disable them, but you should still keep aero on for better performance.
I think I will. But tell me, it’s not another VLC is it? I could never get DXVA-accelerated WMV and MPEG-4/AVC acceleration in that (i.e. GPU accelerated HiDef).
Nope, quite different. I found it in 2002 when looking for a media player for Linux, and it was so very simple and powerful. It’s a bit of an opposite of VLC…because it is just a movie player. In fact, when I did not have a computer for a few years, I used to carry it around with me on a usb stick. It is a single exe file that includes all codes, and you could just drop movies onto it and control with the keyboard.
smplayer just adds a gui and config options and such…it is the best video player, no doubt about it IMO.
RemixedCat, can you please reply to the other posts by myself, JonusC and Indrek? We have all pointed out the features you felt were lacking from 7 are in fact not so, so I would still like to know your reasoning.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Yesh linux has alot of problems with sound! I still cannot get any multichannel working on my creative soundcard in debian and ubuntu!
If you were unable to get sound working in ubuntu, whatever were you doing with Gentoo?
Anyway, sound is indeed a bit of a mess at the moment, with pulse, oss and alsa, but your card is more than likely supported, and you just had to know which module to load.
I have tested 7 it was the build right before RTM and ran it off vm and I did not care for it as much as R2.
They have the same interface. Did you like R2 better “just because it was different”? I don’t mean to sound snarky…but what stuff from R2 did you use that was not in 7?
man to have the hacks to make it even more feature full in R2 would totally make my day.
You only really mean superfetch, right? In whihc case use 7, because there is little difference perfromance wise, otherwise.
the reason I use WMP is becuase it integrates very well with my sansa fuze. other players always screw up the playlists and I like only messing with one program to play and manage music..
There are various other players out there that rely on WMP, and so will be just as compatible, while having a completely different interface and featureset.
@RemixedCat wrote:
this is why I am really irritated at the way some people don’t think about people like me and there’s alot of people like me who are photophobic. Its sad really they only keep the mainstream people in mind and never think of anything outside the box.
It has nothing to do with thinking outside the box, it just does not make sense to cater to light sensitive people when they are maybe 1% of the userbase.
You have access to the color settings, and can adjust this as you like…, it’s not really an issue.
@JonusC wrote:
…it’s not on the status bar, like it was with Vista and XP, and I have to make another click just to see the sum of all the KB’s that are already counted in the column. Clicking ‘Show more details’ thrashes the HDD when they files are big (and the folder isn’t indexed), so it obviously triggers a re-count. If there is a reg tweak or g.p. setting I’d love to know it… I’m still due to finish the mapping of Vista and XP registry hives…
Ahh.
No, I know of no way to change that.
I usually just use the tooltip or right click properties when I want toal sizes…the tooltip option works quite fine IMO…
EDIT: Wow, Server 2008 R2 is faster than 7… I think I’m going to keep Aero on, it’s actually not sluggish after installing all my usual shell hook programs 😀
You should *always* keep aero on.
It offloads work to the GPU, so even if you don’t like all the new featres, you can disable them, but you should still keep aero on for better performance.
I think I will. But tell me, it’s not another VLC is it? I could never get DXVA-accelerated WMV and MPEG-4/AVC acceleration in that (i.e. GPU accelerated HiDef).
Nope, quite different. I found it in 2002 when looking for a media player for Linux, and it was so very simple and powerful. It’s a bit of an opposite of VLC…because it is just a movie player. In fact, when I did not have a computer for a few years, I used to carry it around with me on a usb stick. It is a single exe file that includes all codes, and you could just drop movies onto it and control with the keyboard.
smplayer just adds a gui and config options and such…it is the best video player, no doubt about it IMO.
RemixedCat, can you please reply to the other posts by myself, JonusC and Indrek? We have all pointed out the features you felt were lacking from 7 are in fact not so, so I would still like to know your reasoning.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Yesh linux has alot of problems with sound! I still cannot get any multichannel working on my creative soundcard in debian and ubuntu!
If you were unable to get sound working in ubuntu, whatever were you doing with Gentoo?
Anyway, sound is indeed a bit of a mess at the moment, with pulse, oss and alsa, but your card is more than likely supported, and you just had to know which module to load.
I have tested 7 it was the build right before RTM and ran it off vm and I did not care for it as much as R2.
They have the same interface. Did you like R2 better “just because it was different”? I don’t mean to sound snarky…but what stuff from R2 did you use that was not in 7?
man to have the hacks to make it even more feature full in R2 would totally make my day.
You only really mean superfetch, right? In whihc case use 7, because there is little difference perfromance wise, otherwise.
the reason I use WMP is becuase it integrates very well with my sansa fuze. other players always screw up the playlists and I like only messing with one program to play and manage music..
There are various other players out there that rely on WMP, and so will be just as compatible, while having a completely different interface and featureset.
@RemixedCat wrote:
this is why I am really irritated at the way some people don’t think about people like me and there’s alot of people like me who are photophobic. Its sad really they only keep the mainstream people in mind and never think of anything outside the box.
It has nothing to do with thinking outside the box, it just does not make sense to cater to light sensitive people when they are maybe 1% of the userbase.
You have access to the color settings, and can adjust this as you like…, it’s not really an issue.
jingofresh! I am tired of talking about this! 😆 😆 😆
but I will say that I have tried everything in linux to get the sound working right. I know what modules to load JF I am not stupid. I loaded the right ones, had my sound ok, but it just did not work as well as it did in windows. windows had the full surround sound and everything works fine. I am working it well in R1 as we speak and I can even use the 3d sound capabilities that make stereo sounds sound like virtual surround since my card has DSPs. I cannot even come close to this in linux unless I use the dated XMMS player or use Kaffene or XINE. I know my stuff about linux.
And before you say “aww why are you using windows and not linux then if you want your configurability?”—simple! I need applications that are windows only and the state of linux and the community is really bad all it is is fanbois and flamers and masochists.
I am also appaled at people who just accept stuff as it is instead of trying to change things and just sucking up. Like the people who blog about the world’s problems but don’t try to make thier lives better and help the situation. That’s what makes the people on digg just tinfoil hat basement babies.
jingofresh! I am tired of talking about this! 😆 😆 😆
but I will say that I have tried everything in linux to get the sound working right. I know what modules to load JF I am not stupid. I loaded the right ones, had my sound ok, but it just did not work as well as it did in windows. windows had the full surround sound and everything works fine. I am working it well in R1 as we speak and I can even use the 3d sound capabilities that make stereo sounds sound like virtual surround since my card has DSPs. I cannot even come close to this in linux unless I use the dated XMMS player or use Kaffene or XINE. I know my stuff about linux.
And before you say “aww why are you using windows and not linux then if you want your configurability?”—simple! I need applications that are windows only and the state of linux and the community is really bad all it is is fanbois and flamers and masochists.
I am also appaled at people who just accept stuff as it is instead of trying to change things and just sucking up. Like the people who blog about the world’s problems but don’t try to make thier lives better and help the situation. That’s what makes the people on digg just tinfoil hat basement babies.
@RemixedCat wrote:
jingofresh! I am tired of talking about this! 😆 😆 😆
Well, I think it is an interesting topic, and I would still appreicate your responses.
Every reason you gave for keeping r1 over 7 has been shown to be subjective, and all the features you need indeed exist in 7.
Can we agree then, that there is no technical or functional basis for using r1 over 7, and people who do are simply more comfortable with it?
but I will say that I have tried everything in linux to get the sound working right. I know what modules to load JF I am not stupid. I loaded the right ones, had my sound ok, but it just did not work as well as it did in windows. windows had the full surround sound and everything works fine. I am working it well in R1 as we speak and I can even use the 3d sound capabilities that make stereo sounds sound like virtual surround since my card has DSPs. I cannot even come close to this in linux unless I use the dated XMMS player or use Kaffene or XINE. I know my stuff about linux.
I did not mean to imply you are stupid.
You don’t seem to be overly technical though, given your comments in this thread, and your lack of understand of Midori/Managed code.
The audio problems you describe…, yes, that is part of what I was getting at of sound being a mess. Pulseaudio can actually do everything you require, including 3d and stero sound etc, although it can be an amazing pain to setup and work correctly.
And before you say “aww why are you using windows and not linux then if you want your configurability?”—simple! I need applications that are windows only and the state of linux and the community is really bad all it is is fanbois and flamers and masochists.
I would never say that. I know all too well Linux is not ready for the desktop, and especially not for multimedia stuff, which is your profession IIRC.
What I would say, is why use an OS like R1 that is dated and not letting you get the most out of your hardware, when 7 would suit you so much better.
*shrug*
I am also appaled at people who just accept stuff as it is instead of trying to change things and just sucking up. Like the people who blog about the world’s problems but don’t try to make thier lives better and help the situation. That’s what makes the people on digg just tinfoil hat basement babies.
A lot of blogging can be important..highlighting issues and raising awareness. Sometimes people are not able to inflict change…or perhaps they wish to do so by writing.
I agree, Digg is indeed full of babies though.
@RemixedCat wrote:
jingofresh! I am tired of talking about this! 😆 😆 😆
Well, I think it is an interesting topic, and I would still appreicate your responses.
Every reason you gave for keeping r1 over 7 has been shown to be subjective, and all the features you need indeed exist in 7.
Can we agree then, that there is no technical or functional basis for using r1 over 7, and people who do are simply more comfortable with it?
but I will say that I have tried everything in linux to get the sound working right. I know what modules to load JF I am not stupid. I loaded the right ones, had my sound ok, but it just did not work as well as it did in windows. windows had the full surround sound and everything works fine. I am working it well in R1 as we speak and I can even use the 3d sound capabilities that make stereo sounds sound like virtual surround since my card has DSPs. I cannot even come close to this in linux unless I use the dated XMMS player or use Kaffene or XINE. I know my stuff about linux.
I did not mean to imply you are stupid.
You don’t seem to be overly technical though, given your comments in this thread, and your lack of understand of Midori/Managed code.
The audio problems you describe…, yes, that is part of what I was getting at of sound being a mess. Pulseaudio can actually do everything you require, including 3d and stero sound etc, although it can be an amazing pain to setup and work correctly.
And before you say “aww why are you using windows and not linux then if you want your configurability?”—simple! I need applications that are windows only and the state of linux and the community is really bad all it is is fanbois and flamers and masochists.
I would never say that. I know all too well Linux is not ready for the desktop, and especially not for multimedia stuff, which is your profession IIRC.
What I would say, is why use an OS like R1 that is dated and not letting you get the most out of your hardware, when 7 would suit you so much better.
*shrug*
I am also appaled at people who just accept stuff as it is instead of trying to change things and just sucking up. Like the people who blog about the world’s problems but don’t try to make thier lives better and help the situation. That’s what makes the people on digg just tinfoil hat basement babies.
A lot of blogging can be important..highlighting issues and raising awareness. Sometimes people are not able to inflict change…or perhaps they wish to do so by writing.
I agree, Digg is indeed full of babies though.
I am extremely technical! I am sick to bloody death of your assumptions.
I am fully aware of manged code and midori. managed code keeps your system clean becuase of cleans out memory. That is why It is faster. java is manged code and it is much faster then C++ becuase it cleans out memory and stuff like that. And you saying it is slower is stupid.
MS needs midori since the windows stack has been even claimed by MS to be unwieldy and unmanageable now. I have even heard this at 3 MS conferences I’ve been to. They can only add new features and play around with it, but to do drastic rebuilds of core features would be drastic and extremely undesirable for them. That is why they are developing midori, to address the complaints that people have about MS OSes bloating and taking up too much memory. They are also building it from the ground up to be managed and secure, since applications run in sandboxed modes so they cannot interferre with eachother. This would make it much more secure and less bloated. Why would you NOT want such an OS?
I still can’t see why you are against midori and claim that it will be slow becuase it runs on managed code. i would love to have managed code so that way If I load up tons of applications and multitask alot I don’t have to worry about memory and disk management. i can sit back and not be a memory nazi like I have to with windows.
I am extremely technical! I am sick to bloody death of your assumptions.
I am fully aware of manged code and midori. managed code keeps your system clean becuase of cleans out memory. That is why It is faster. java is manged code and it is much faster then C++ becuase it cleans out memory and stuff like that. And you saying it is slower is stupid.
MS needs midori since the windows stack has been even claimed by MS to be unwieldy and unmanageable now. I have even heard this at 3 MS conferences I’ve been to. They can only add new features and play around with it, but to do drastic rebuilds of core features would be drastic and extremely undesirable for them. That is why they are developing midori, to address the complaints that people have about MS OSes bloating and taking up too much memory. They are also building it from the ground up to be managed and secure, since applications run in sandboxed modes so they cannot interferre with eachother. This would make it much more secure and less bloated. Why would you NOT want such an OS?
I still can’t see why you are against midori and claim that it will be slow becuase it runs on managed code. i would love to have managed code so that way If I load up tons of applications and multitask alot I don’t have to worry about memory and disk management. i can sit back and not be a memory nazi like I have to with windows.
@RemixedCat wrote:
I am extremely technical! I am sick to bloody death of your assumptions.
Assumptions? I am going purely by the information you have presented.
Your assumptions about 7/R2 were incorrect, as people have pointed out in this thread. Your understanding of managed code was incorrect. You were unable to get audio working on Linux to the same extent as you had in Windows, when it is possible, without using specific players.
I’m not assuming anything, I’m going purely by the things you have said on this board. If you like, I can find the quotes that demonstrate that you don’t have a good tech understanding of things.
In any case, I’m glad to see the discussion served a purpose, and that there are indeed no technical or functional advantages to remaining with R1/Vista.
I am fully aware of manged code and midori. managed code keeps your system clean becuase of cleans out memory. That is why It is faster. java is manged code and it is much faster then C++ becuase it cleans out memory and stuff like that. And you saying it is slower is stupid.
MS needs midori since the windows stack has been even claimed by MS to be unwieldy and unmanageable now. I have even heard this at 3 MS conferences I’ve been to. They can only add new features and play around with it, but to do drastic rebuilds of core features would be drastic and extremely undesirable for them. That is why they are developing midori, to address the complaints that people have about MS OSes bloating and taking up too much memory. They are also building it from the ground up to be managed and secure, since applications run in sandboxed modes so they cannot interferre with eachother. This would make it much more secure and less bloated. Why would you NOT want such an OS?
sigh.
And you wonder why you don’t seem technical?
The complains people have about MS OS’es bloating are completely unjustified, and not based on any technical reasons at all.
You’re also quite incorrect that the Windows stack is limited and can not be extended. I would be curious if your could give a source, backing up your claim.
I still can’t see why you are against midori and claim that it will be slow becuase it runs on managed code.
You are putting words into my mouth.
Where have I said this?
i would love to have managed code so that way If I load up tons of applications and multitask alot I don’t have to worry about memory and disk management. i can sit back and not be a memory nazi like I have to with windows.
WTF?
Again, you wonder why you don’t seem overly technical?
Hint: Even if the OS is managed code(which it won’t be…perhaps the userspace will be), the applications will still be seperate, and will still use differing amounts of memory.
You don’t seem to fully understand that Microsoft were developing Midori as a research project, and it will definitily not be the next version of Windows. You also seem to have a poor understandaing of Managed code, and seem to be imagaing it will solve all your problems, when this is simply not the case.
Accuse me of assumptions all you want, but I am going ONLY by what you have stated on this board, and I have asked you for sources/clarifications several times, which you ignore.
@RemixedCat wrote:
I am extremely technical! I am sick to bloody death of your assumptions.
Assumptions? I am going purely by the information you have presented.
Your assumptions about 7/R2 were incorrect, as people have pointed out in this thread. Your understanding of managed code was incorrect. You were unable to get audio working on Linux to the same extent as you had in Windows, when it is possible, without using specific players.
I’m not assuming anything, I’m going purely by the things you have said on this board. If you like, I can find the quotes that demonstrate that you don’t have a good tech understanding of things.
In any case, I’m glad to see the discussion served a purpose, and that there are indeed no technical or functional advantages to remaining with R1/Vista.
I am fully aware of manged code and midori. managed code keeps your system clean becuase of cleans out memory. That is why It is faster. java is manged code and it is much faster then C++ becuase it cleans out memory and stuff like that. And you saying it is slower is stupid.
MS needs midori since the windows stack has been even claimed by MS to be unwieldy and unmanageable now. I have even heard this at 3 MS conferences I’ve been to. They can only add new features and play around with it, but to do drastic rebuilds of core features would be drastic and extremely undesirable for them. That is why they are developing midori, to address the complaints that people have about MS OSes bloating and taking up too much memory. They are also building it from the ground up to be managed and secure, since applications run in sandboxed modes so they cannot interferre with eachother. This would make it much more secure and less bloated. Why would you NOT want such an OS?
sigh.
And you wonder why you don’t seem technical?
The complains people have about MS OS’es bloating are completely unjustified, and not based on any technical reasons at all.
You’re also quite incorrect that the Windows stack is limited and can not be extended. I would be curious if your could give a source, backing up your claim.
I still can’t see why you are against midori and claim that it will be slow becuase it runs on managed code.
You are putting words into my mouth.
Where have I said this?
i would love to have managed code so that way If I load up tons of applications and multitask alot I don’t have to worry about memory and disk management. i can sit back and not be a memory nazi like I have to with windows.
WTF?
Again, you wonder why you don’t seem overly technical?
Hint: Even if the OS is managed code(which it won’t be…perhaps the userspace will be), the applications will still be seperate, and will still use differing amounts of memory.
You don’t seem to fully understand that Microsoft were developing Midori as a research project, and it will definitily not be the next version of Windows. You also seem to have a poor understandaing of Managed code, and seem to be imagaing it will solve all your problems, when this is simply not the case.
Accuse me of assumptions all you want, but I am going ONLY by what you have stated on this board, and I have asked you for sources/clarifications several times, which you ignore.
QUIT TROLLING ME!
Jesus christ.
I have asked you for clarifications at every stage, and have only gone by things you have written.
You’re the one who makes assumptions, e.g.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Also , indrek you sound like you don’t multitask much. You prolly don’t have much explorer windows open to care or don’t use grouping.
Asking you to clarify your points, or pointing out that you are wrong, is not trolling.
If you can’t handle people disagreeing with you, and if you only get angry when people point out that you’re wrong, or that you can’t support your points, maybe forums are not the place for you.
I was interested in a purely technical/functional discussion, and you have almost completely destroyed by spreading FUD about 7/R2. Thanks.
Jesus christ.
I have asked you for clarifications at every stage, and have only gone by things you have written.
You’re the one who makes assumptions, e.g.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Also , indrek you sound like you don’t multitask much. You prolly don’t have much explorer windows open to care or don’t use grouping.
Asking you to clarify your points, or pointing out that you are wrong, is not trolling.
If you can’t handle people disagreeing with you, and if you only get angry when people point out that you’re wrong, or that you can’t support your points, maybe forums are not the place for you.
I was interested in a purely technical/functional discussion, and you have almost completely destroyed by spreading FUD about 7/R2. Thanks.
@JingoFresh wrote:
You should *always* keep aero on.
It offloads work to the GPU, so even if you don’t like all the new featres, you can disable them, but you should still keep aero on for better performance.
Oh don’t worry, I knew this before I even first tried Vista. Alas, while window drawing, dragging and refreshes were faster with DWM acceleration, some things were “lagging”. Perhaps it’s my 9600GT, perhaps it’s only the fact I have 3GB DDR2-800 RAM (2-2-2-5 though mind you), but the most common UI lag was from context menu’s. Usually it’s a registry fragmentation or PreFetch issue – you right click, it has to load all the namespace extensions – Anti Virus option, Notepad++, FileMenu Tools, WinRAR, so on and so forth – it has nothing to do with DWM, but for some reason using classic/no themes in Win7 made it nearly an entire second faster.
Although, I think it may be because I’ve left Win32PrioritySeperation to the default “Background Services” setting of Long + Fixed Quantum with No Boost to foreground Threads… I remember reading once that some Vista machines can actually be faster when you leave Background Services as higher priority.
Maybe it’s my hard disks? Regardless, it’s much better… it could also be because I’m using the latest 191.x nVidia drivers, beforehand I was sticking to 186.x as the 190’s crashed in Fallout 3 🙁
@JingoFresh wrote:
Anyway, sound is indeed a bit of a mess at the moment, with pulse, oss and alsa, but your card is more than likely supported, and you just had to know which module to load.
Yeah, I never had a great deal of success with either my SB Live! 5.1 (Dell OEM, yes it’s an EMU10k1 chip) nor AC’97 ‘Azalia’ onboard Audio [Realtek ALC889A]. But hopefully things will get better soon.
@JingoFresh wrote:
You should *always* keep aero on.
It offloads work to the GPU, so even if you don’t like all the new featres, you can disable them, but you should still keep aero on for better performance.
Oh don’t worry, I knew this before I even first tried Vista. Alas, while window drawing, dragging and refreshes were faster with DWM acceleration, some things were “lagging”. Perhaps it’s my 9600GT, perhaps it’s only the fact I have 3GB DDR2-800 RAM (2-2-2-5 though mind you), but the most common UI lag was from context menu’s. Usually it’s a registry fragmentation or PreFetch issue – you right click, it has to load all the namespace extensions – Anti Virus option, Notepad++, FileMenu Tools, WinRAR, so on and so forth – it has nothing to do with DWM, but for some reason using classic/no themes in Win7 made it nearly an entire second faster.
Although, I think it may be because I’ve left Win32PrioritySeperation to the default “Background Services” setting of Long + Fixed Quantum with No Boost to foreground Threads… I remember reading once that some Vista machines can actually be faster when you leave Background Services as higher priority.
Maybe it’s my hard disks? Regardless, it’s much better… it could also be because I’m using the latest 191.x nVidia drivers, beforehand I was sticking to 186.x as the 190’s crashed in Fallout 3 🙁
@JingoFresh wrote:
Anyway, sound is indeed a bit of a mess at the moment, with pulse, oss and alsa, but your card is more than likely supported, and you just had to know which module to load.
Yeah, I never had a great deal of success with either my SB Live! 5.1 (Dell OEM, yes it’s an EMU10k1 chip) nor AC’97 ‘Azalia’ onboard Audio [Realtek ALC889A]. But hopefully things will get better soon.
meh @ JF
@ JC you are actually stable with the 191.x drivers from nvidia?! OMG!
fallout3 crashed all the time for me. I just gave up on it.
but borderlands works great.
@RemixedCat wrote:
@ JC you are actually stable with the 191.x drivers from nvidia?! OMG!
fallout3 crashed all the time for me. I just gave up on it.
but borderlands works great.
Yeah it seemed to be with many DX9 games, but i’ve only been running 2K8 R2 with these 191’s for a few days – haven’t had a chance to try any games or benchmarks yet. EDIT: Apparently they have returned lots of legacy support, for example one of the first things I tried was GTA1 – it actually works again in Win7 😆
@RemixedCat wrote:
@ JC you are actually stable with the 191.x drivers from nvidia?! OMG!
fallout3 crashed all the time for me. I just gave up on it.
but borderlands works great.
Yeah it seemed to be with many DX9 games, but i’ve only been running 2K8 R2 with these 191’s for a few days – haven’t had a chance to try any games or benchmarks yet. EDIT: Apparently they have returned lots of legacy support, for example one of the first things I tried was GTA1 – it actually works again in Win7 😆
the big breaker is AION and BL and assassin’s creed. try those games out and I’ll know whether the 191’s do this on R2. I used to have access to an R2 machine at a relative’s house but they are moving so I cannot use it. I cannot modify the partitions here eather. I got this huge project and I really cannot reconfig OSes becuase of this.
Other have reported R2 to work with AION and the 191’s just fine, however those were users of GF9800GTs and anything from NV that was made before the 200 series cards. any of the 200 series cards and the NF200 chipsets are affected greatly and have caused the cards to physically die on them.
Oh and JF-I have a little word of advice-Just becuase someone does not speak on these forums very articulately and writes a novel on how windows 7 is the god OS does not mean they are not technical or stupid. OK! If you are here on a server forum telling us that windows 7 should be used over R1/R2 then you should not be here. Go to a windows 7 forums and gloat there and stuff. You came here and questioned us using R1/R2.
I have no problems with R2 personally I like how fast it is and the general performance, however I was just stating that many convenience features were removed. if someone stole your icemaker from your fridge would you be mad? I would! I am sticking with R1 out of the sake of some software not working becuase of removed DLL files and also the loss of the features I mentioned, yes I could live without them, however it would just be a pain for me to go out of my way and reformat my hard drive and go with another slightly better OS. I would only do it if it were major and absolutely needed.
the big breaker is AION and BL and assassin’s creed. try those games out and I’ll know whether the 191’s do this on R2. I used to have access to an R2 machine at a relative’s house but they are moving so I cannot use it. I cannot modify the partitions here eather. I got this huge project and I really cannot reconfig OSes becuase of this.
Other have reported R2 to work with AION and the 191’s just fine, however those were users of GF9800GTs and anything from NV that was made before the 200 series cards. any of the 200 series cards and the NF200 chipsets are affected greatly and have caused the cards to physically die on them.
Oh and JF-I have a little word of advice-Just becuase someone does not speak on these forums very articulately and writes a novel on how windows 7 is the god OS does not mean they are not technical or stupid. OK! If you are here on a server forum telling us that windows 7 should be used over R1/R2 then you should not be here. Go to a windows 7 forums and gloat there and stuff. You came here and questioned us using R1/R2.
I have no problems with R2 personally I like how fast it is and the general performance, however I was just stating that many convenience features were removed. if someone stole your icemaker from your fridge would you be mad? I would! I am sticking with R1 out of the sake of some software not working becuase of removed DLL files and also the loss of the features I mentioned, yes I could live without them, however it would just be a pain for me to go out of my way and reformat my hard drive and go with another slightly better OS. I would only do it if it were major and absolutely needed.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Oh and JF-I have a little word of advice-Just becuase someone does not speak on these forums very articulately and writes a novel on how windows 7 is the god OS does not mean they are not technical or stupid. OK! If you are here on a server forum telling us that windows 7 should be used over R1/R2 then you should not be here. Go to a windows 7 forums and gloat there and stuff. You came here and questioned us using R1/R2.
I’m surprised I’m responding to you at all, since you were completely uncivil and insulting, and brought down the whole discussion, but OK.
You’re putting words into my mouth again. Please stop doing that.
I have never said Windows 7 is the god OS or any such nonsense.
What I have said, is that there is no technical/functional reason to use R1 over 7, and that remains true.
I never once implied you were stupid, but you certainly are not very technical. After your insults, I read through some of your other posts. You have spread quite a bit of misinformation, and have a poor understanding of some things.
This is not an insult or an assumption, but going directly by your posts on this board.
I started this discussion wanting technical functional reasons. You replied with a heap of trash that you could not back up, no matter how many times I asked you to clarify or expand on points.
Three other posts showed you were mistaken, and you don’t respond, you simply go ‘meh’.
That, is, frustrating.
I have no problems with R2 personally I like how fast it is and the general performance, however I was just stating that many convenience features were removed.
They are not gone, they have changed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did you miss people pointing that out to you?
Some of the features you mentioned, such as the network activity basis, did not even have a basis to begin with!
if someone stole your icemaker from your fridge would you be mad? I would!
If someone replaced my square icemaker on the left of my fridge with a better circle icemaker on the right of my fridge, I might be confused and dismayed at first, but I would get used to it and maybe even like it better.
I am sticking with R1 out of the sake of some software not working becuase of removed DLL files and also the loss of the features I mentioned, yes I could live without them, however it would just be a pain for me to go out of my way and reformat my hard drive and go with another slightly better OS. I would only do it if it were major and absolutely needed.
Due to some software not working is the first real reason you’ve given so far. It would be interesting to see what software it was, and why it was not running, but that is another topic.
Can you just answer my one question? What features of R1 do you use, that are specific to R1? Lets pretend Windows 7 had all the same features in the UI as vista had, and just “under the hood” was different.
Would you still stick with R1? Why?
JonusC,
Would you agree there is no technical advantage to staying with R1 over 7? Ignoring things like price, “everything currently working”, etc…
@RemixedCat wrote:
Oh and JF-I have a little word of advice-Just becuase someone does not speak on these forums very articulately and writes a novel on how windows 7 is the god OS does not mean they are not technical or stupid. OK! If you are here on a server forum telling us that windows 7 should be used over R1/R2 then you should not be here. Go to a windows 7 forums and gloat there and stuff. You came here and questioned us using R1/R2.
I’m surprised I’m responding to you at all, since you were completely uncivil and insulting, and brought down the whole discussion, but OK.
You’re putting words into my mouth again. Please stop doing that.
I have never said Windows 7 is the god OS or any such nonsense.
What I have said, is that there is no technical/functional reason to use R1 over 7, and that remains true.
I never once implied you were stupid, but you certainly are not very technical. After your insults, I read through some of your other posts. You have spread quite a bit of misinformation, and have a poor understanding of some things.
This is not an insult or an assumption, but going directly by your posts on this board.
I started this discussion wanting technical functional reasons. You replied with a heap of trash that you could not back up, no matter how many times I asked you to clarify or expand on points.
Three other posts showed you were mistaken, and you don’t respond, you simply go ‘meh’.
That, is, frustrating.
I have no problems with R2 personally I like how fast it is and the general performance, however I was just stating that many convenience features were removed.
They are not gone, they have changed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did you miss people pointing that out to you?
Some of the features you mentioned, such as the network activity basis, did not even have a basis to begin with!
if someone stole your icemaker from your fridge would you be mad? I would!
If someone replaced my square icemaker on the left of my fridge with a better circle icemaker on the right of my fridge, I might be confused and dismayed at first, but I would get used to it and maybe even like it better.
I am sticking with R1 out of the sake of some software not working becuase of removed DLL files and also the loss of the features I mentioned, yes I could live without them, however it would just be a pain for me to go out of my way and reformat my hard drive and go with another slightly better OS. I would only do it if it were major and absolutely needed.
Due to some software not working is the first real reason you’ve given so far. It would be interesting to see what software it was, and why it was not running, but that is another topic.
Can you just answer my one question? What features of R1 do you use, that are specific to R1? Lets pretend Windows 7 had all the same features in the UI as vista had, and just “under the hood” was different.
Would you still stick with R1? Why?
JonusC,
Would you agree there is no technical advantage to staying with R1 over 7? Ignoring things like price, “everything currently working”, etc…
Ok THE main reason I am also sticking with R1 is I have 2 full legal copies purchased by my company. I do not run a trial or dreamspark like most people on this OS that use it for workstation. My company I work for does not think the changes in R2 are justified purchasing the upgrades. They even pointed out that the OSes only came out little over a year from eachother and not much has changed in R2 to really bother with. All they did was change the UI, removed and changed some features, and they released it. I think they rushed in 7 just to save thier hides from the vista letdown. It was going to be called blackcomb and have tons of awesome features that were never going to be put in, Like WINFS (future storage) and a multitude of networking options. it was not going to originally come out till 2011. Vista is what Longhorn used to be. even LH was going to have craploads more features then vista ever had. it seems as if MS tends to rush out OSes just to make more money.
Just becuase somethings new doesn’t mean its best.
if builders were building new houses that did not have kitchens in them, for example out of the stupid assumption “everyone goes out to eat and never cooks anymore”, but had a spot for plug in hybrids, and a skate ramp would you rather buy a new extremely expensive house that was boring and white or buy the cheaper old one with better quality fixtures and details that has a kitchen and put in the other two features yourself?
Ok THE main reason I am also sticking with R1 is I have 2 full legal copies purchased by my company. I do not run a trial or dreamspark like most people on this OS that use it for workstation. My company I work for does not think the changes in R2 are justified purchasing the upgrades. They even pointed out that the OSes only came out little over a year from eachother and not much has changed in R2 to really bother with. All they did was change the UI, removed and changed some features, and they released it. I think they rushed in 7 just to save thier hides from the vista letdown. It was going to be called blackcomb and have tons of awesome features that were never going to be put in, Like WINFS (future storage) and a multitude of networking options. it was not going to originally come out till 2011. Vista is what Longhorn used to be. even LH was going to have craploads more features then vista ever had. it seems as if MS tends to rush out OSes just to make more money.
Just becuase somethings new doesn’t mean its best.
if builders were building new houses that did not have kitchens in them, for example out of the stupid assumption “everyone goes out to eat and never cooks anymore”, but had a spot for plug in hybrids, and a skate ramp would you rather buy a new extremely expensive house that was boring and white or buy the cheaper old one with better quality fixtures and details that has a kitchen and put in the other two features yourself?
My opinion is for me to remain impartial on the matter, because I know each has their advantages and disadvantages – despite my personal taste I understand that everyone has their own right to choose. Unless you live in North Korea…
But to be completely honest, while I do think Win7/R2 is faster on slower hardware, I still don’t trust it’s stability or compatibility is anywhere near that of Vista or R1.
My opinion is for me to remain impartial on the matter, because I know each has their advantages and disadvantages – despite my personal taste I understand that everyone has their own right to choose. Unless you live in North Korea…
But to be completely honest, while I do think Win7/R2 is faster on slower hardware, I still don’t trust it’s stability or compatibility is anywhere near that of Vista or R1.
RC,
Vista came out in 2006, and 7 in 2009.
7 is not simply based on Vista, was not rushed out, and adds substantial features and improvements.
One of the biggest differences between 7 and Vista is the improved SuperFetch….they really improved the tech quite a lot.
R1 came out quite a bit later than Vista, but still just about 2 years before R2. I would say that R2 has substantial advantages in the server space, but it is heavily dependant on your needs and configuration.
For a workstation, R2, being based on 7, is much smoother and faster, and simply more efficient. The UI changes(and this is all they are..changes, not features being removed) does not worry me, because I deal with many different environment almost daily. Gnome, Flux, KDE, OS X etc…
I agree the missing features are a shame, but I would rather they take the time to perfect them, then ship it out just to meet a deadline.
RC,
Vista came out in 2006, and 7 in 2009.
7 is not simply based on Vista, was not rushed out, and adds substantial features and improvements.
One of the biggest differences between 7 and Vista is the improved SuperFetch….they really improved the tech quite a lot.
R1 came out quite a bit later than Vista, but still just about 2 years before R2. I would say that R2 has substantial advantages in the server space, but it is heavily dependant on your needs and configuration.
For a workstation, R2, being based on 7, is much smoother and faster, and simply more efficient. The UI changes(and this is all they are..changes, not features being removed) does not worry me, because I deal with many different environment almost daily. Gnome, Flux, KDE, OS X etc…
I agree the missing features are a shame, but I would rather they take the time to perfect them, then ship it out just to meet a deadline.
windows server 2008 R1 release date: February 4th RTM/February 27th,2008 Retail
windows server 2008 R2 release date: July 22, 2009 RTM/October 22nd,2009 Retailwow not much apart. I think they could have done better with R2 and added more recovery options. R1 doesn’t have them ether.
I once had a system_service_exception error BSOD (from a bad driver) and it was unrecoverable. I had to reformat and reinstall. It was a pain. I couldn’t even get into safe mode to recover it.
I wish that there was a way to reset services or have a recovery mode to fix the problems. Or at least make it so we can access safe mode!
If they would make more self healing features and would have delayed the release date till Q1/2010 it would have been more feasible for me.
If R2 was, in fact a more hardened OS You think that by now even at R1 they would have had more self healing features. That would have been a real nail in the coffin for linux. at least linux is more recoverable.
windows server 2008 R1 release date: February 4th RTM/February 27th,2008 Retail
windows server 2008 R2 release date: July 22, 2009 RTM/October 22nd,2009 Retailwow not much apart. I think they could have done better with R2 and added more recovery options. R1 doesn’t have them ether.
I once had a system_service_exception error BSOD (from a bad driver) and it was unrecoverable. I had to reformat and reinstall. It was a pain. I couldn’t even get into safe mode to recover it.
I wish that there was a way to reset services or have a recovery mode to fix the problems. Or at least make it so we can access safe mode!
If they would make more self healing features and would have delayed the release date till Q1/2010 it would have been more feasible for me.
If R2 was, in fact a more hardened OS You think that by now even at R1 they would have had more self healing features. That would have been a real nail in the coffin for linux. at least linux is more recoverable.
Linux, Windows and even OSX are not really competing in my opinion – as far as professionals go anyway. Linux is a server/programming OS winner, OSX is a multimedia/creative production workhorse, and Windows tries to do a bit of everything (albeit greatly excelling in some areas and somewhat lacking in others).
Self-healing… hmm… I just make weekly incremental backups over a 3-month cycle (i.e. once they are 3 months old they are deleted). It’s quite painless and quick to do that when you have a C: partition dedicated to the OS (and you install everything to E:Program Files, and C:Users is located on E:Users but mapped to D:)
Linux, Windows and even OSX are not really competing in my opinion – as far as professionals go anyway. Linux is a server/programming OS winner, OSX is a multimedia/creative production workhorse, and Windows tries to do a bit of everything (albeit greatly excelling in some areas and somewhat lacking in others).
Self-healing… hmm… I just make weekly incremental backups over a 3-month cycle (i.e. once they are 3 months old they are deleted). It’s quite painless and quick to do that when you have a C: partition dedicated to the OS (and you install everything to E:Program Files, and C:Users is located on E:Users but mapped to D:)
Yesh I do have my partitions spread out like my OS has one, my apps have one my general data has one and my architecture stuff has one. I also have a backup partition exclusivley for linux recovery since it also has memory tools and diagnostics, however it has trouble with NTFS 🙁 but it’s a good distro but Its currently not installed I will install it this winter if They have updated the NTFS tool. I will find the name of it shortly once I get my old favs sorted out.
If it did detect a problem or conflict it would let you know more often or something that would be nice.
I ocne had windows update service disabled (for gaming so the update thing didn’t nag me or have forced updates on me) and ran the IE8 setup and accidentally left the update checkbox ticked and I ran the installer, it updated and when it told me to restart I did and got the system_service_exception BSOD and I had to reformat to get back in business.
Why couldn’t the update software detect the service wasn’t running and say this: “setup could not proceed with updates becuase the service is disabled. Please start the service and try again” kinda things! If this happened it would make this problem history. Self learning systems that know what you do and act accordingly.
Yesh I do have my partitions spread out like my OS has one, my apps have one my general data has one and my architecture stuff has one. I also have a backup partition exclusivley for linux recovery since it also has memory tools and diagnostics, however it has trouble with NTFS 🙁 but it’s a good distro but Its currently not installed I will install it this winter if They have updated the NTFS tool. I will find the name of it shortly once I get my old favs sorted out.
If it did detect a problem or conflict it would let you know more often or something that would be nice.
I ocne had windows update service disabled (for gaming so the update thing didn’t nag me or have forced updates on me) and ran the IE8 setup and accidentally left the update checkbox ticked and I ran the installer, it updated and when it told me to restart I did and got the system_service_exception BSOD and I had to reformat to get back in business.
Why couldn’t the update software detect the service wasn’t running and say this: “setup could not proceed with updates becuase the service is disabled. Please start the service and try again” kinda things! If this happened it would make this problem history. Self learning systems that know what you do and act accordingly.
@RemixedCat wrote:
windows server 2008 R1 release date: February 4th RTM/February 27th,2008 Retail
windows server 2008 R2 release date: July 22, 2009 RTM/October 22nd,2009 Retailwow not much apart.
Well, as I said, just about about 2 years.
Although, that really is not the best way to gauge how far a product has come, as the release dates do not necessarily reflect the development cycles.
I think they could have done better with R2 and added more recovery options. R1 doesn’t have them ether.
Well. It is a server OS.
I think the recovery options are quite good considering.
I once had a system_service_exception error BSOD (from a bad driver) and it was unrecoverable. I had to reformat and reinstall. It was a pain. I couldn’t even get into safe mode to recover it.
A single bad driver fried your system? That seems like a bit of a stretch….
I wish that there was a way to reset services or have a recovery mode to fix the problems. Or at least make it so we can access safe mode!
If they would make more self healing features and would have delayed the release date till Q1/2010 it would have been more feasible for me.
You have a great deal of control via the command line, and you can still access safe mode.
All operating systems are currently a ways off from self healing in any true sense, although the next gen file systems will help with this.
If R2 was, in fact a more hardened OS You think that by now even at R1 they would have had more self healing features. That would have been a real nail in the coffin for linux. at least linux is more recoverable.
Linux more recoverable? I would say they are quite close.
I’m not sure why you don’t think R2 is a less hardened OS…it most certainly is, and isn’t just the rushjob you implied it was earlier.
I also don’t know why selfhealing should be a measure of how hard an OS is…it can be useful, but is in no way a priority.
JonusC,
I would not consider OS X to be in the market in any serious capacity anymore. A lot of the multimedia stuff has moved to Windows, and OS X is pretty much for the people who prefer the brand. That’s it.
@RemixedCat wrote:
windows server 2008 R1 release date: February 4th RTM/February 27th,2008 Retail
windows server 2008 R2 release date: July 22, 2009 RTM/October 22nd,2009 Retailwow not much apart.
Well, as I said, just about about 2 years.
Although, that really is not the best way to gauge how far a product has come, as the release dates do not necessarily reflect the development cycles.
I think they could have done better with R2 and added more recovery options. R1 doesn’t have them ether.
Well. It is a server OS.
I think the recovery options are quite good considering.
I once had a system_service_exception error BSOD (from a bad driver) and it was unrecoverable. I had to reformat and reinstall. It was a pain. I couldn’t even get into safe mode to recover it.
A single bad driver fried your system? That seems like a bit of a stretch….
I wish that there was a way to reset services or have a recovery mode to fix the problems. Or at least make it so we can access safe mode!
If they would make more self healing features and would have delayed the release date till Q1/2010 it would have been more feasible for me.
You have a great deal of control via the command line, and you can still access safe mode.
All operating systems are currently a ways off from self healing in any true sense, although the next gen file systems will help with this.
If R2 was, in fact a more hardened OS You think that by now even at R1 they would have had more self healing features. That would have been a real nail in the coffin for linux. at least linux is more recoverable.
Linux more recoverable? I would say they are quite close.
I’m not sure why you don’t think R2 is a less hardened OS…it most certainly is, and isn’t just the rushjob you implied it was earlier.
I also don’t know why selfhealing should be a measure of how hard an OS is…it can be useful, but is in no way a priority.
JonusC,
I would not consider OS X to be in the market in any serious capacity anymore. A lot of the multimedia stuff has moved to Windows, and OS X is pretty much for the people who prefer the brand. That’s it.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Yesh I do have my partitions spread out like my OS has one, my apps have one my general data has one and my architecture stuff has one. I also have a backup partition exclusivley for linux recovery since it also has memory tools and diagnostics, however it has trouble with NTFS 🙁 but it’s a good distro but Its currently not installed I will install it this winter if They have updated the NTFS tool. I will find the name of it shortly once I get my old favs sorted out.
Which distro? Backtrack?
Why have a seperate recovery partition distro and not just a live cd? The idea behind using recovery software is generally that it is guaranteed to be clean..so it doesn’t make that much sense to have it on the same PC>..practically for home use it doesnt matter though.
Why couldn’t the update software detect the service wasn’t running and say this: “setup could not proceed with updates becuase the service is disabled. Please start the service and try again” kinda things! If this happened it would make this problem history. Self learning systems that know what you do and act accordingly.
The system service exception did not occur because the windows update service was not running…that is not how it works, and would never have caused a BSOD.
It was probably due to your dodgy nvidia drivers(which you mentioned earlier.)
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms793232.aspx states : “This error has been linked to excessive paged pool usage and may occur due to user-mode graphics drivers crossing over and passing bad data to the kernel code.”
Since it happened while you were gaming, seems like a given.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Yesh I do have my partitions spread out like my OS has one, my apps have one my general data has one and my architecture stuff has one. I also have a backup partition exclusivley for linux recovery since it also has memory tools and diagnostics, however it has trouble with NTFS 🙁 but it’s a good distro but Its currently not installed I will install it this winter if They have updated the NTFS tool. I will find the name of it shortly once I get my old favs sorted out.
Which distro? Backtrack?
Why have a seperate recovery partition distro and not just a live cd? The idea behind using recovery software is generally that it is guaranteed to be clean..so it doesn’t make that much sense to have it on the same PC>..practically for home use it doesnt matter though.
Why couldn’t the update software detect the service wasn’t running and say this: “setup could not proceed with updates becuase the service is disabled. Please start the service and try again” kinda things! If this happened it would make this problem history. Self learning systems that know what you do and act accordingly.
The system service exception did not occur because the windows update service was not running…that is not how it works, and would never have caused a BSOD.
It was probably due to your dodgy nvidia drivers(which you mentioned earlier.)
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms793232.aspx states : “This error has been linked to excessive paged pool usage and may occur due to user-mode graphics drivers crossing over and passing bad data to the kernel code.”
Since it happened while you were gaming, seems like a given.
The BSOD happened AFTER I restarted becuase to complete the IE8 setup (and complete the updates install I did not want) you have to restart your computer. (or you would be using IE7 untill it did restart.
I restarted and I got a BSOD after the server 2008 animated bar with the back BG. I could NOT get into command line even!
This was also cuased by the updates needing the service to be under startup and since the service was not started in startup it had the exception!
Don’t tell me what I experienced. I did not say I got it while gaming. Nor was it caused by nvidia driver, as a matter of fact the nvidia driver I had at the time was very stable and nice. Don’t you start on this crap.I also tried to use the DVD to do the recovery thing but the command line did not work after I rebooted to go back into the OS.
I had to reformat to get my system back and running.
Now stop trolling me AGAIN!
The BSOD happened AFTER I restarted becuase to complete the IE8 setup (and complete the updates install I did not want) you have to restart your computer. (or you would be using IE7 untill it did restart.
I restarted and I got a BSOD after the server 2008 animated bar with the back BG. I could NOT get into command line even!
This was also cuased by the updates needing the service to be under startup and since the service was not started in startup it had the exception!
Don’t tell me what I experienced. I did not say I got it while gaming. Nor was it caused by nvidia driver, as a matter of fact the nvidia driver I had at the time was very stable and nice. Don’t you start on this crap.I also tried to use the DVD to do the recovery thing but the command line did not work after I rebooted to go back into the OS.
I had to reformat to get my system back and running.
Now stop trolling me AGAIN!
@JingoFresh wrote:
JonusC,
I would not consider OS X to be in the market in any serious capacity anymore. A lot of the multimedia stuff has moved to Windows, and OS X is pretty much for the people who prefer the brand. That’s it.
Good point. The main reason OSX had such successs in the broadcast/production industry is because of it’s High Memory support, but since x64 is becoming more and more mainstream these days there isn’t really a lot going for it – apart from it’s ease of use.
@JingoFresh wrote:
JonusC,
I would not consider OS X to be in the market in any serious capacity anymore. A lot of the multimedia stuff has moved to Windows, and OS X is pretty much for the people who prefer the brand. That’s it.
Good point. The main reason OSX had such successs in the broadcast/production industry is because of it’s High Memory support, but since x64 is becoming more and more mainstream these days there isn’t really a lot going for it – apart from it’s ease of use.
apple products are just a plastic playtoy for the rich. Overpriced and overhyped.
There is very little difference hardware wise to a “mac”
The only differences lie in that macs use EFI (Extensive Firmware Interface) Instead of BIOS and they use GUID partition table instead of MBR for the hard drives. Ever since they switched to intel they have been like this.
You can even run OSX on a PC with some hacking (ie, Hackintosh)
all they are is a proprietary software company that happend to put thier brand on a PC now.
Think different? Not really.
apple products are just a plastic playtoy for the rich. Overpriced and overhyped.
There is very little difference hardware wise to a “mac”
The only differences lie in that macs use EFI (Extensive Firmware Interface) Instead of BIOS and they use GUID partition table instead of MBR for the hard drives. Ever since they switched to intel they have been like this.
You can even run OSX on a PC with some hacking (ie, Hackintosh)
all they are is a proprietary software company that happend to put thier brand on a PC now.
Think different? Not really.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Nor was it caused by nvidia driver, as a matter of fact the nvidia driver I had at the time was very stable and nice. Don’t you start on this crap.
I linked you to the page listing the type of crash you encountered, which clearly lists the cause, and suggests graphics drivers could have been at fault. Perhaps graphics were not at fault, but you don’t get a BSOD for the reason you described.
That simply is not how it works. A BSOD because a service is not running? Never.
I had to reformat to get my system back and running.
Well, that may have been easy, but it wasn’t necessary.
Now stop trolling me AGAIN!
Didn’t you learn anything?
I’m not trolling you at all. Sheesh.
Just because I point out how you may have been wrong, or disagree with what you say, is not trolling.
Grow up.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Nor was it caused by nvidia driver, as a matter of fact the nvidia driver I had at the time was very stable and nice. Don’t you start on this crap.
I linked you to the page listing the type of crash you encountered, which clearly lists the cause, and suggests graphics drivers could have been at fault. Perhaps graphics were not at fault, but you don’t get a BSOD for the reason you described.
That simply is not how it works. A BSOD because a service is not running? Never.
I had to reformat to get my system back and running.
Well, that may have been easy, but it wasn’t necessary.
Now stop trolling me AGAIN!
Didn’t you learn anything?
I’m not trolling you at all. Sheesh.
Just because I point out how you may have been wrong, or disagree with what you say, is not trolling.
Grow up.
You might have never gotten a system_service_exception BSOD so you don’t know 😈 :ugeek:
I have tons of experiences with computers you would only dream of.
I do very advanced stuff like architecture and 3d modelling, game development and have built over 300 systems from scratch. so don’t tell me what happens and what doesn’t happen 👿 👿
the problem I had was so obscure becuase most people don’t even bother to mess with the services.msc control panel. go ahead. install IE8 with the windows update service disabled (startup type disabled as well! go to start>run>type “services.msc”) and leave the tick mark on the “install updates” section, have it install the updates, reboot and whoopie you get the BSOD! This triggers it becuase since the service is on startup and it needs to still update before windows is loaded all the way it does this becuase the service is not started and the update process depends on it.
I can’t believe you cannot get this through your little head and then tell me that I am not experiencing that. My tech illiterate mom got this through her head the first time! (since she almost did the same thing I did!) 😈 😈
You might have never gotten a system_service_exception BSOD so you don’t know 😈 :ugeek:
I have tons of experiences with computers you would only dream of.
I do very advanced stuff like architecture and 3d modelling, game development and have built over 300 systems from scratch. so don’t tell me what happens and what doesn’t happen 👿 👿
the problem I had was so obscure becuase most people don’t even bother to mess with the services.msc control panel. go ahead. install IE8 with the windows update service disabled (startup type disabled as well! go to start>run>type “services.msc”) and leave the tick mark on the “install updates” section, have it install the updates, reboot and whoopie you get the BSOD! This triggers it becuase since the service is on startup and it needs to still update before windows is loaded all the way it does this becuase the service is not started and the update process depends on it.
I can’t believe you cannot get this through your little head and then tell me that I am not experiencing that. My tech illiterate mom got this through her head the first time! (since she almost did the same thing I did!) 😈 😈
@RemixedCat wrote:
You might have never gotten a system_service_exception BSOD so you don’t know
I have, and I do know.
In any event, the technical information trumps your little anecdote.
You will NEVER get a BSOD simply because a service was not running. Nevver. JC, please confirm this.
I have tons of experiences with computers you would only dream of.
So, who is the one making assumptions now?
I’ve actually been working professionally in the industry for the last 15 years, but yes, I’m sure you have far more wideranging experiences from being a graphic designer.
I do very advanced stuff like architecture and 3d modelling, game development and have built over 300 systems from scratch. so don’t tell me what happens and what doesn’t happen
Using specialised programs, and putting PC’s together is not an indication of having technical knowledge of how PC’s, or specific operating systems work.
You can think what you like, but I’m not trolling you, or assuming anything. Going by what you have said on these boards, you have a poor understanding of how the Windows OS works.
You will NEVER get a BSOD because a service is not running. That is simply not what a system_service_exception is. That is a cold hard fact, and I have provided a technical resource to corroborate what I’m saying.
If you disagree, then provide a source other than your anecdote. You know, something reliable.
the problem I had was so obscure becuase most people don’t even bother to mess with the services.msc control panel. go ahead. install IE8 with the windows update service disabled (startup type disabled as well! go to start>run>type “services.msc”) and leave the tick mark on the “install updates” section, have it install the updates, reboot and whoopie you get the BSOD!
No, that does not happen.
If this bug is as reproducible as you claim(assuming it is not specific to your setup), surely there would be a KB article? Have you informed MS? Has no one else ever experienced this bug?
This triggers it becuase since the service is on startup and it needs to still update before windows is loaded all the way it does this becuase the service is not started and the update process depends on it.
No, that is not how it works. You will NEVER get a system_service_exception BSOD simply because a service is not running. Read the page I linked to.
I can’t believe you cannot get this through your little head and then tell me that I am not experiencing that. My tech illiterate mom got this through her head the first time! (since she almost did the same thing I did!)
You’re mum probably just believed what you told her.
If you are getting a system_service_exception, IT IS NOT BECAUSE A SERVICE IS NOT RUNNING.
You need to get over your lack of understanding, admit you’re wrong, learn a bit on the way, and get over it.
Stop spreading misinformation.
Now, how long until you skip over the fact and accuse me of trolling?
@RemixedCat wrote:
You might have never gotten a system_service_exception BSOD so you don’t know
I have, and I do know.
In any event, the technical information trumps your little anecdote.
You will NEVER get a BSOD simply because a service was not running. Nevver. JC, please confirm this.
I have tons of experiences with computers you would only dream of.
So, who is the one making assumptions now?
I’ve actually been working professionally in the industry for the last 15 years, but yes, I’m sure you have far more wideranging experiences from being a graphic designer.
I do very advanced stuff like architecture and 3d modelling, game development and have built over 300 systems from scratch. so don’t tell me what happens and what doesn’t happen
Using specialised programs, and putting PC’s together is not an indication of having technical knowledge of how PC’s, or specific operating systems work.
You can think what you like, but I’m not trolling you, or assuming anything. Going by what you have said on these boards, you have a poor understanding of how the Windows OS works.
You will NEVER get a BSOD because a service is not running. That is simply not what a system_service_exception is. That is a cold hard fact, and I have provided a technical resource to corroborate what I’m saying.
If you disagree, then provide a source other than your anecdote. You know, something reliable.
the problem I had was so obscure becuase most people don’t even bother to mess with the services.msc control panel. go ahead. install IE8 with the windows update service disabled (startup type disabled as well! go to start>run>type “services.msc”) and leave the tick mark on the “install updates” section, have it install the updates, reboot and whoopie you get the BSOD!
No, that does not happen.
If this bug is as reproducible as you claim(assuming it is not specific to your setup), surely there would be a KB article? Have you informed MS? Has no one else ever experienced this bug?
This triggers it becuase since the service is on startup and it needs to still update before windows is loaded all the way it does this becuase the service is not started and the update process depends on it.
No, that is not how it works. You will NEVER get a system_service_exception BSOD simply because a service is not running. Read the page I linked to.
I can’t believe you cannot get this through your little head and then tell me that I am not experiencing that. My tech illiterate mom got this through her head the first time! (since she almost did the same thing I did!)
You’re mum probably just believed what you told her.
If you are getting a system_service_exception, IT IS NOT BECAUSE A SERVICE IS NOT RUNNING.
You need to get over your lack of understanding, admit you’re wrong, learn a bit on the way, and get over it.
Stop spreading misinformation.
Now, how long until you skip over the fact and accuse me of trolling?
I’m starting to believe that this discussion is starting to go a bit too off-topic and it is getting into more of an argument so I would like to ask you to finish your argument and if you need to continue discussing this topic (not arguing) then you may do so in the [localurl=viewforum.php?f=3:23hch6si]Open Topic[/localurl:23hch6si] forum where anyone who wants to continue this discussion may join you. This would allow people who wish to continue this discussion to discuss it over there and people who are tired of having this discussion can leave the discussion.
Thanks,
Xxcom9aI’m starting to believe that this discussion is starting to go a bit too off-topic and it is getting into more of an argument so I would like to ask you to finish your argument and if you need to continue discussing this topic (not arguing) then you may do so in the [localurl=viewforum.php?f=3:23hch6si]Open Topic[/localurl:23hch6si] forum where anyone who wants to continue this discussion may join you. This would allow people who wish to continue this discussion to discuss it over there and people who are tired of having this discussion can leave the discussion.
Thanks,
Xxcom9aThanks xxcom9a, I agree completely.
I’m all for keeping technical discussions technical, and thereby constructive.
RC gave an anecdote which is simply incorrect. I explained why, and provided a technical resource to back this up.
Instead, if RC is unable to argue on a technical basis, and resort to insults, I suppose there is really nothing else to say.
Thanks xxcom9a, I agree completely.
I’m all for keeping technical discussions technical, and thereby constructive.
RC gave an anecdote which is simply incorrect. I explained why, and provided a technical resource to back this up.
Instead, if RC is unable to argue on a technical basis, and resort to insults, I suppose there is really nothing else to say.
the freakin BSOD said system_service_exception! How many times do I ned to tell you what I saw with my own eyes! holy cow! You are basically telling me what I saw with my own eyes! How hillarious! You crack me up so hard JF!
You must be very very hard headed to not just agree with me and said I got the bsod and that there needs to be recovery options for those who cannot reformat. plain as that and stop whining about me being wrong when I am the one who experienced this problem.
were you at my house witnessing this event? Did you personally se my fit of frustration at having to reformat my hard drive to get my OS back up and running becuase I had a BSOD AFTER I REBOOTED AND BEFORE WINDOWS WAS FULLY STARTED UP.
You are the densest person I know of. I am not insulting you I am just sick of your assuming that I am dumb and did not exprience this problem just becuase you wasn’t there to witness it. google for system_service_exception BSOD vista and thers tons of people that had that from mixes of everything.
I might even cook up a VMware and replicate it. It is easily replicated.
the freakin BSOD said system_service_exception! How many times do I ned to tell you what I saw with my own eyes! holy cow! You are basically telling me what I saw with my own eyes! How hillarious! You crack me up so hard JF!
You must be very very hard headed to not just agree with me and said I got the bsod and that there needs to be recovery options for those who cannot reformat. plain as that and stop whining about me being wrong when I am the one who experienced this problem.
were you at my house witnessing this event? Did you personally se my fit of frustration at having to reformat my hard drive to get my OS back up and running becuase I had a BSOD AFTER I REBOOTED AND BEFORE WINDOWS WAS FULLY STARTED UP.
You are the densest person I know of. I am not insulting you I am just sick of your assuming that I am dumb and did not exprience this problem just becuase you wasn’t there to witness it. google for system_service_exception BSOD vista and thers tons of people that had that from mixes of everything.
I might even cook up a VMware and replicate it. It is easily replicated.
Look: you get the system_service_exception BSOD becuase a require service that needed to start up was NOT running. This was windows update. witch is ran at startup after you install updates.
since I had went to the services.msc control panel for the services for windows, I went to it to disable windows update service and set its startup type to “disabled”. I had this done about 2 week prior since it bugged me while I was doing graphics and messed me up a few times. so i did this to disable the nagging icon and baloon tip.
then reboot after applying this change. Then follow the steps below.
here’s the EXACT STEPS ONE VERY LAST TIME FOR YOU!:
I downloaded Ie8 setup from the MS site
I double cliked my install icon
I went through the first few steps
I accidentally left the option to “install updates” that it gives you as well as installing IE8.
I clicked next and proceeded to the install progress
I had to reboot my computer to complete the IE8 setup (since it requires it to run IE8-If you do not restart you can run IE7 till you do.
I clicked on the restart button
It was showing the green server 2008 pre shutdown screen while showing update progress
It rebooted
It went through the BIOS splash screen and POST messages
It went to the server 2008 animated bar with the black background
Then it BSODed and gave me the system_service_exception error!
It did this becuase the NEEDED WINDOWS UPDATE STARTUP SERVICE WAS NOT RUNNING BECASUE IT WAS DISABLED.
Thus it passed the exception error!
How hard is this to understand!
Look: you get the system_service_exception BSOD becuase a require service that needed to start up was NOT running. This was windows update. witch is ran at startup after you install updates.
since I had went to the services.msc control panel for the services for windows, I went to it to disable windows update service and set its startup type to “disabled”. I had this done about 2 week prior since it bugged me while I was doing graphics and messed me up a few times. so i did this to disable the nagging icon and baloon tip.
then reboot after applying this change. Then follow the steps below.
here’s the EXACT STEPS ONE VERY LAST TIME FOR YOU!:
I downloaded Ie8 setup from the MS site
I double cliked my install icon
I went through the first few steps
I accidentally left the option to “install updates” that it gives you as well as installing IE8.
I clicked next and proceeded to the install progress
I had to reboot my computer to complete the IE8 setup (since it requires it to run IE8-If you do not restart you can run IE7 till you do.
I clicked on the restart button
It was showing the green server 2008 pre shutdown screen while showing update progress
It rebooted
It went through the BIOS splash screen and POST messages
It went to the server 2008 animated bar with the black background
Then it BSODed and gave me the system_service_exception error!
It did this becuase the NEEDED WINDOWS UPDATE STARTUP SERVICE WAS NOT RUNNING BECASUE IT WAS DISABLED.
Thus it passed the exception error!
How hard is this to understand!
@RemixedCat wrote:
the freakin BSOD said system_service_exception! How many times do I ned to tell you what I saw with my own eyes! holy cow! You are basically telling me what I saw with my own eyes! How hillarious! You crack me up so hard JF!
I am not telling you what you saw with your own eyes. Please stop misrepresenting me, and putting words into my mouth.
You must be very very hard headed to not just agree with me and said I got the bsod and that there needs to be recovery options for those who cannot reformat. plain as that and stop whining about me being wrong when I am the one who experienced this problem.
I am not telling you what you saw with your own eyes. Please stop misrepresenting me, and putting words into my mouth.
I never said you did not get a BSOD. Quote me where I said that? I said you did not understand the reason why you got a BSOD. Quite different.
I am calling this point 1, to avoid having to repeat myself. Instead, I will simply refer to point1.
Point1: You are interpreting the type of exception, system_service_exception, to have an obvious meaning, based on your reasoning of why it occurred. You seem to think that this particular exception is caused by an expected service not running. This is false. An expected service not running would cause a loss of functionality, an error in the logs, or a dependant service not starting. It would not cause a BSOD.You have to let go of your anecdote, and be willing to read and understand the problem, and understand that it has absolutely nothing to do with your interpretation.
were you at my house witnessing this event? Did you personally se my fit of frustration at having to reformat my hard drive to get my OS back up and running becuase I had a BSOD AFTER I REBOOTED AND BEFORE WINDOWS WAS FULLY STARTED UP.
First of all, it is a fallacy that I would need to have been at your. That would have made absolutely no difference. Allow me to clarify and explain why with a second point:
Point 2: In programming, an exception will be an attempt to handle special conditions, that interrupt the otherwise normal flow of a program. These exceptions will be(At least in the case of Windows), well documented, and immutable. They do not always have obvious names, and they are not always reproducible. One important thing to note, is that they are always the same. If you tell someone the type of exception you encountered, then they can simply look at the Microsoft reference page. They don’t need to have been with you to see the exception occur.
You are the densest person I know of. I am not insulting you I am just sick of your assuming that I am dumb and did not exprience this problem just becuase you wasn’t there to witness it. google for system_service_exception BSOD vista and thers tons of people that had that from mixes of everything.
Wow. Back to insults.
But, nevermind that.
Your ignorance is astounding. You remain convinced that your interpretation of what an system_service_exception is, because it was obvious based on the circumstances you believe caused it.
This might have been acceptable, except for the fact I already linked you to the microsoft page explaining exactly what a system_service_exception is.
I have no idea why you think the anecdotes of computer users who don’t know what they are talking about, is more relibale than the official MSDN resource…
I might even cook up a VMware and replicate it. It is easily replicated.
If you can cause a system_service_exception simply by disabling a service, I will gladly pay you $100 USD to any account of your choice.
Otherwise, I would really prefer you to admit you don’t know what your talking about, and that you are wrong, wrong, wrong.
Perhaps JonusC, who has quite a bit of experience with developing could reiterate and confirm what I am saying.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Look: you get the system_service_exception BSOD becuase a require service that needed to start up was NOT running. This was windows update. witch is ran at startup after you install updates.
NO.
That is wrong. Very wrong.
See point 1.
since I had went to the services.msc control panel for the services for windows, I went to it to disable windows update service and set its startup type to “disabled”. I had this done about 2 week prior since it bugged me while I was doing graphics and messed me up a few times. so i did this to disable the nagging icon and baloon tip.
then reboot after applying this change.
Sure, that’s all fine. I’m wondering why you’re not applying or hiding updates, and hope you do actually apply patches…but anyway.
here’s the EXACT STEPS ONE VERY LAST TIME FOR YOU!:
I downloaded Ie8 setup from the MS site
I double cliked my install icon
I went through the first few steps
I accidentally left the option to “install updates” that it gives you as well as installing IE8.
I clicked next and proceeded to the install progress
I had to reboot my computer to complete the IE8 setup (since it requires it to run IE8-If you do not restart you can run IE7 till you do.
I clicked on the restart button
It was showing the green server 2008 pre shutdown screen while showing update progress
It rebooted
It went through the BIOS splash screen and POST messages
It went to the server 2008 animated bar with the black background
Then it BSODed and gave me the system_service_exception error!
OK, sure.
See point 1, and point 2.
It did this becuase the NEEDED WINDOWS UPDATE STARTUP SERVICE WAS NOT RUNNING BECASUE IT WAS DISABLED.
NO
That is not how it works!
See point 1.
Thus it passed the exception error!
See point 2
How hard is this to understand!
I really hope I have explained it well enough for you.
@RemixedCat wrote:
the freakin BSOD said system_service_exception! How many times do I ned to tell you what I saw with my own eyes! holy cow! You are basically telling me what I saw with my own eyes! How hillarious! You crack me up so hard JF!
I am not telling you what you saw with your own eyes. Please stop misrepresenting me, and putting words into my mouth.
You must be very very hard headed to not just agree with me and said I got the bsod and that there needs to be recovery options for those who cannot reformat. plain as that and stop whining about me being wrong when I am the one who experienced this problem.
I am not telling you what you saw with your own eyes. Please stop misrepresenting me, and putting words into my mouth.
I never said you did not get a BSOD. Quote me where I said that? I said you did not understand the reason why you got a BSOD. Quite different.
I am calling this point 1, to avoid having to repeat myself. Instead, I will simply refer to point1.
Point1: You are interpreting the type of exception, system_service_exception, to have an obvious meaning, based on your reasoning of why it occurred. You seem to think that this particular exception is caused by an expected service not running. This is false. An expected service not running would cause a loss of functionality, an error in the logs, or a dependant service not starting. It would not cause a BSOD.You have to let go of your anecdote, and be willing to read and understand the problem, and understand that it has absolutely nothing to do with your interpretation.
were you at my house witnessing this event? Did you personally se my fit of frustration at having to reformat my hard drive to get my OS back up and running becuase I had a BSOD AFTER I REBOOTED AND BEFORE WINDOWS WAS FULLY STARTED UP.
First of all, it is a fallacy that I would need to have been at your. That would have made absolutely no difference. Allow me to clarify and explain why with a second point:
Point 2: In programming, an exception will be an attempt to handle special conditions, that interrupt the otherwise normal flow of a program. These exceptions will be(At least in the case of Windows), well documented, and immutable. They do not always have obvious names, and they are not always reproducible. One important thing to note, is that they are always the same. If you tell someone the type of exception you encountered, then they can simply look at the Microsoft reference page. They don’t need to have been with you to see the exception occur.
You are the densest person I know of. I am not insulting you I am just sick of your assuming that I am dumb and did not exprience this problem just becuase you wasn’t there to witness it. google for system_service_exception BSOD vista and thers tons of people that had that from mixes of everything.
Wow. Back to insults.
But, nevermind that.
Your ignorance is astounding. You remain convinced that your interpretation of what an system_service_exception is, because it was obvious based on the circumstances you believe caused it.
This might have been acceptable, except for the fact I already linked you to the microsoft page explaining exactly what a system_service_exception is.
I have no idea why you think the anecdotes of computer users who don’t know what they are talking about, is more relibale than the official MSDN resource…
I might even cook up a VMware and replicate it. It is easily replicated.
If you can cause a system_service_exception simply by disabling a service, I will gladly pay you $100 USD to any account of your choice.
Otherwise, I would really prefer you to admit you don’t know what your talking about, and that you are wrong, wrong, wrong.
Perhaps JonusC, who has quite a bit of experience with developing could reiterate and confirm what I am saying.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Look: you get the system_service_exception BSOD becuase a require service that needed to start up was NOT running. This was windows update. witch is ran at startup after you install updates.
NO.
That is wrong. Very wrong.
See point 1.
since I had went to the services.msc control panel for the services for windows, I went to it to disable windows update service and set its startup type to “disabled”. I had this done about 2 week prior since it bugged me while I was doing graphics and messed me up a few times. so i did this to disable the nagging icon and baloon tip.
then reboot after applying this change.
Sure, that’s all fine. I’m wondering why you’re not applying or hiding updates, and hope you do actually apply patches…but anyway.
here’s the EXACT STEPS ONE VERY LAST TIME FOR YOU!:
I downloaded Ie8 setup from the MS site
I double cliked my install icon
I went through the first few steps
I accidentally left the option to “install updates” that it gives you as well as installing IE8.
I clicked next and proceeded to the install progress
I had to reboot my computer to complete the IE8 setup (since it requires it to run IE8-If you do not restart you can run IE7 till you do.
I clicked on the restart button
It was showing the green server 2008 pre shutdown screen while showing update progress
It rebooted
It went through the BIOS splash screen and POST messages
It went to the server 2008 animated bar with the black background
Then it BSODed and gave me the system_service_exception error!
OK, sure.
See point 1, and point 2.
It did this becuase the NEEDED WINDOWS UPDATE STARTUP SERVICE WAS NOT RUNNING BECASUE IT WAS DISABLED.
NO
That is not how it works!
See point 1.
Thus it passed the exception error!
See point 2
How hard is this to understand!
I really hope I have explained it well enough for you.
Look you would argue with me even if I said that southern hemisphere had thier seasons inverted. You would argue even if I told you that AMD bought ATI.
I am done with your childish arguments over what I PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED ON MY OWN COMPUTER!
You don’t live with me, so you don’t know what I go through.
I’ve been on this forum much much longer then you have.
I think you are just demeaning me becuase I am a woman and most arrogant males do this to females to make them feel bad.
This problem might not exist on windows 7 or R2 but it exsists on R1/Vista! it even happened on my laptop that recently kicked the bucket that had vista HP x64. (it was a HP I picked up for 300USD)
Look you would argue with me even if I said that southern hemisphere had thier seasons inverted. You would argue even if I told you that AMD bought ATI.
I am done with your childish arguments over what I PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED ON MY OWN COMPUTER!
You don’t live with me, so you don’t know what I go through.
I’ve been on this forum much much longer then you have.
I think you are just demeaning me becuase I am a woman and most arrogant males do this to females to make them feel bad.
This problem might not exist on windows 7 or R2 but it exsists on R1/Vista! it even happened on my laptop that recently kicked the bucket that had vista HP x64. (it was a HP I picked up for 300USD)
It’s ridiculous for you to assert that you’re being female has anything to do with my attitude towards, you, at all. Instead of responding to the fact that you might be wrong, you just make excused.
“you were not there so you don’t know”, so what? That has nothing to do with anything, and it is naive to think it would. See point 2.
In fact, instead of responding to a single technical point I made, you have called me arrogant, and inferred I am both childish and a sexist. Maybe you should think about how this is amking you look.
I have shown to you, and explained to you why you are wrong, yet you arrogantly persist in believing you are right, and that you know better than the MSDN resource. Do you understand just how arrogant that is?
I could not care less that you are a woman, nor do I argue for the sake of arguing as you suggest.
I argue only on technical points, that’s it. And, in a technical context, you are completely out of place, and so resort to in sults, or trying to sell your personal experiences as facts, when they are anything but.
The problem emphatically does not exist in any form as you describe. A system_service_exception is due to a bad driver or paged pool usage.
Indeed, to quote:
If you still disagree with that, and think that your personal, subjective misinformed experience is somehow more correct and reliable, then please, by all means, provide some sort of verifiable proof, and I will gladly honor my pledge to pay you.
Otherwise, please just admit that you were wrong, and that you are way out of your depth in technical matters. Or, at the least, stop acting childishly and respond to the valid points I make instead of resorting to insults.
It’s ridiculous for you to assert that you’re being female has anything to do with my attitude towards, you, at all. Instead of responding to the fact that you might be wrong, you just make excused.
“you were not there so you don’t know”, so what? That has nothing to do with anything, and it is naive to think it would. See point 2.
In fact, instead of responding to a single technical point I made, you have called me arrogant, and inferred I am both childish and a sexist. Maybe you should think about how this is amking you look.
I have shown to you, and explained to you why you are wrong, yet you arrogantly persist in believing you are right, and that you know better than the MSDN resource. Do you understand just how arrogant that is?
I could not care less that you are a woman, nor do I argue for the sake of arguing as you suggest.
I argue only on technical points, that’s it. And, in a technical context, you are completely out of place, and so resort to in sults, or trying to sell your personal experiences as facts, when they are anything but.
The problem emphatically does not exist in any form as you describe. A system_service_exception is due to a bad driver or paged pool usage.
Indeed, to quote:
If you still disagree with that, and think that your personal, subjective misinformed experience is somehow more correct and reliable, then please, by all means, provide some sort of verifiable proof, and I will gladly honor my pledge to pay you.
Otherwise, please just admit that you were wrong, and that you are way out of your depth in technical matters. Or, at the least, stop acting childishly and respond to the valid points I make instead of resorting to insults.
Ok I’m not going to feed your trolling anymore.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Ok I’m not going to feed your trolling anymore.
How in the world is that trolling?
I provided a technical response, with proof, and all you do is throw around insults?
You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, at all.
Grow up.
@RemixedCat wrote:
Ok I’m not going to feed your trolling anymore.
How in the world is that trolling?
I provided a technical response, with proof, and all you do is throw around insults?
You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, at all.
Grow up.
Okay, this is getting way off-topic and every post is just you guys arguing back and forth so I’m closing this topic as the original topic was: Why do people use R1 instead of 7 – I don’t see how this discussion is related.
(closed)
- The topic ‘People using R1 instead of 7 – Why?’ is closed to new replies.
